| Science/Technology
|
[
Science/Technology ] [ Main Menu ] |
|
|
|
4433 |
|
|
Date: November 20, 2013 at 19:15:03
From: dib, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Should rich nations pay to help poor nations adapt to climate change? (NT) |
URL: NPR audio |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Responses:
[4434] [4435] [4436] [4437] [4438] [4439] [4442] [4443] [4444] |
|
4434 |
|
|
Date: November 20, 2013 at 19:40:00
From: JTRIV, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: Should rich nations pay to help poor nations adapt to climate... |
|
|
Hi dib,
Interesting audio. This is where these climate conferences always seem to stall out. There is no action on actually curbing CO2 emissions and changing the course of future rises in atmospheric CO2. It always ends up with how much money the so called rich nations will ship to the poor nations. Will it help the issue of climate change by adding taxes of $100 billion per year by 2020 that are dispersed to the developing world? Of course not.
Year after year the United Nations holds a climate conference that always ends up arguing over how much money should be sent from the developed nations to the developing nations. I guess there isn't much else to talk about. There are no solutions to providing energy without emissions. A we must act now! mentality isn't seen except in a few speeches as there is nothing significant that can be done. So it always turns to money and how much wealth will be transferred in the name of climate change.
Cheers
Jim
|
|
|
|
|
Responses:
[4435] [4436] [4437] [4438] [4439] [4442] [4443] [4444] |
|
4435 |
|
|
Date: November 20, 2013 at 20:20:14
From: dib, [DNS_Address]
Subject: More on the CC. (NT) |
URL: NPR Link |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Responses:
[4436] [4437] [4438] [4439] [4442] [4443] [4444] |
|
4436 |
|
|
Date: November 20, 2013 at 20:52:31
From: JTRIV, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: More on the CC. (NT) |
|
|
Hi dib,
Another good article. I'd read it early as it is by Associated Press.
Here's the excerpt I think is most significant:
"In Warsaw, developing nations are coming up with fresh ways to make their point. Brazil has proposed creating a formula to calculate historical blame.
"They must know how much they are actually responsible ... for the essential problem of climate change," Brazilian negotiator Raphael Azeredo said.
Developed nations blocked that proposal, however, saying the world should look at current and future emissions when dividing up the responsibility for global warming.
China, considered a developing nation at these talks, overtook the U.S. to become the world's biggest carbon polluter in the last decade, and developing countries as a whole now have higher emissions than the developed world.
To focus only on past emissions "seems to us as very partial and not very accurate," Stern, the U.S. envoy, said.
The U.S. wants to get rid of the U.N.'s current division between developed and developing nations. Stern noted that a 2007 study showed that by 2020, the all-time emissions of developing countries will exceed those of the developed world, due to emissions growth in large emerging economies like China and India."
Now that the US is no longer the number one emitter they try to put a price on historical emissions. Of course any plan wouldn't go into effect until 2020 and by then the developing world will have more historical emissions.
So instead of focusing on climate these conferences always focus on money and reasons the "rich nations" (in this global economic slump!) should send huge sums of money to developing nations.
While this really doesn't relate to the science of climate change it certainly could make someone skeptical of the agenda of these UN conferences supposedly about climate change.
Cheers
Jim
|
|
|
|
|
Responses:
[4437] [4438] [4439] [4442] [4443] [4444] |
|
4437 |
|
|
Date: November 20, 2013 at 22:44:28
From: dib, [DNS_Address]
Subject: There aren't any easy solutions... |
|
|
|
...and the CC will likely not have any meaningful results, but it sure would be interesting to see the formula they might have developed to calculate the "who caused" and "how much" factors.
|
|
|
|
|
Responses:
[4438] [4439] [4442] [4443] [4444] |
|
4438 |
|
|
Date: November 20, 2013 at 22:57:35
From: JTRIV, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: There aren't any easy solutions... |
|
|
Hi dib,
I agree they aren't easy solutions.
> but it sure would be interesting to see the formula they might have developed to calculate the "who caused"
> and "how much" factors.
That may get out as several developing nations made proposals. But punishing historical emitters without addressing future emissions? Even historical won't work as by 2020 the developing world will have historical emissions greater than the developed nations. By 2025 China's emissions will have grown to the point that per capita emissions in China will equal those in the US.
Why wouldn't the focus be on the emitters of the 21st century? Isn't the problem supposed to be that growing emissions by the end of the 21st century will create a dangerous climate? China alone accounts for 70% of year over year global emissions increases. By 2020 China will have double the emissions of former number 1 emitter the US and will still be growing rapidly.
But the focus is on money not future emissions so the push by those nations looking to cash in is on the "who caused" and "how much" factors. It has nothing to do with climate change, it's all about who will pay.
Cheers
Jim
|
|
|
|
|
Responses:
[4439] [4442] [4443] [4444] |
|
4439 |
|
|
Date: November 20, 2013 at 23:27:56
From: dib, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: There aren't any easy solutions... |
|
|
|
The suggestion, iirc, was to develop a formula to assign blame. I don't think there is a formula yet.
|
|
|
|
|
Responses:
[4442] [4443] [4444] |
|
4442 |
|
|
Date: November 21, 2013 at 08:57:21
From: JTRIV, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: There aren't any easy solutions... |
|
|
Hi dib,
> The suggestion, iirc, was to develop a formula to assign blame. I don't think there is a formula yet.
You won't see a final agreed upon formula as this won't be accepted by anyone. You may find what some nations proposals were for this redistribution of wealth and that may help you understand the failures of these climate conferences.
Cheers
Jim
|
|
|
|
|
Responses:
[4443] [4444] |
|
4443 |
|
|
Date: November 21, 2013 at 10:01:51
From: dib, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: There aren't any easy solutions... |
|
|
|
It appears we're getting mired in semantics. I interpreted the statement meant to devise a "formula" for blame in the mathematical sense, not in the general sense. I'm no longer interested enough in it to look back to see if my interpretation is accurate or not.
|
|
|
|
|
Responses:
[4444] |
|
4444 |
|
|
Date: November 21, 2013 at 10:15:43
From: JTRIV, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: There aren't any easy solutions... |
|
|
Hi dib,
> I interpreted the statement meant to devise a "formula" for blame in the mathematical sense, not in the general sense.
The "formula" was to assign blame in regards to who should pay.
> I'm no longer interested enough in it to look back to see if my interpretation is accurate or not.
Sure, just remember the context was for payments by "rich nations" to "poor nations" so the formula for assigning blame was in the context of who would pay. It's not really about blame or even climate but about money.
Cheers
Jim
|
|
|
|
|
Responses:
None |
|
[
Science/Technology ] [ Main Menu ] |