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4141
From: horst graben, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: "the unexplained bizarre children of our Solar System"
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my unconcious mind would not let me sleep in this Sunday morning ... so when i woke up ... i began to ask myself the following set of questions: (1) ... do all star systems rotate in same direction? the answer is no ... some systems seem to have "retrograde" motion that is opposite the "prograde" motion of our solar system formation of celestial systems "When a galaxy or a planetary system forms, its material takes the shape of a disk. Most of the material orbits and rotates in one direction. This uniformity of motion is due to the collapse of a gas cloud. ... The nature of the collapse is explained by the principle called conservation of angular momentum." "In 2010 the discovery of several hot jupiters with backward orbits called into question the theories about the formation of planetary systems." "This can be explained by noting that stars and their planets do not form in isolation but in star clusters and when the protoplanetary disk from one star collides with or steals material from another star's disk this can result in retrograde motion of a disk and the resulting planets." extrasolar planet "There also exist planetary-mass objects that orbit brown dwarfs and other bodies that 'float free' in space not bound to any star ..." extrasolar planet definition "... There have also been several reported detections of planetary-mass objects that do not orbit any parent body." "Some of these may have once belonged to a star's planetary system before being ejected from it; the term 'rogue planet' is sometimes applied to such objects." extrasolar planet orbital parameters ... inclination "Research has now also shown that more than half of hot Jupiters have orbital planes substantially misaligned with their parent star's rotation. A substantial fraction even have retrograde orbits, meaning that they orbit in the opposite direction from the star's rotation." "Andrew Cameron of the University of St Andrews stated 'The new results really challenge the conventional wisdom that planets should always orbit in the same direction as their star's spin.'" "Rather than a planet's orbit having been disturbed, it may be that the star itself flipped early in their system's formation due to interactions between the star's magnetic field and the planet-forming disc." extrasolar planet mass distribution "As of September 2011, all but 50 of the many known exoplanets have more than ten times the mass of Earth." extrasolar planet density "Planets with low density are inferred to be composed mainly of hydrogen and helium, while planets of intermediate density are inferred to have water as a major constituent. A planet of high density is believed to be rocky, like Earth and the other terrestrial planets of the Solar System." (2) ... do all planets within our solar system rotate in the same direction? the answer is no ... two planets in our solar system rotate in directions opposite to the others retrograde and prograde motion "In the Solar System, all the planets and almost all of the other objects that revolve in orbit around the Sun, with the exception of many comets, do so in the "prograde" direction, i.e. the same sense as the rotation of the Sun. Most planets also rotate in the same prograde direction, the exceptions being Venus and Uranus, which have retrograde rotations." counterclockwise, but there are exceptions  "... If you rose up, above the Earth’s North Pole, and looked down at the Earth as it revolved around the Sun, not only would the Earth spin counterclockwise, it would also orbit the Sun counterclockwise!"  "While Mercury, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, and Neptune all rotate counterclockwise, at tilts varying from less than a degree up to substantial, significant tilts, two planets stand out as weirdos."  "Venus, rotating almost perfectly backwards, and Uranus, rotating on its side, are the unexplained bizarre children of our Solar System." (3) can i find a computer simulations for ... a smaller and more dense mass ... counter-rotating ... retrograde motion ... INSIDE of a larger less dense mass rotating with prograde motion? the answer is no ... no one has BOTH accomplished AND published such simulations ... at least not one that i can find on "the internets" (4) can i find a computer simulation for a spinning mass with an eccentric center-of-mass? the answer is no ... at least not one that i can find on "the internets" the scenario i imagined while sleepless is as follows: (1) ... high density terrestrial-type planet M ... with mass ten times planet Earth ... and having retrograde motion ... enters the Solar system (2) ... low density gas giant-type planet J ... with mass four hundred times planet Earth ... rotates prograde around Sol (3) ... planet M impacts planet J (4) ... as M oblates mass inside J its retrograde motion causes its nickel-iron core to migrate the center-of-mass of J away from its center-of-rotation (5) ... as J rotates prograde ... the eccentric mass distribution become so great that rotational forces cause the retrograde core of M to be ejected from the surface of J (6) ... having been ejected from J ... M continues retrograde motion within the Solar system until equilibrium is reached this scenario is consistent with the current retrograde motion of ""the unexplained bizarre CHILD of our Solar System" ... Venus |
4143
From: JTRIV, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: "the unexplained bizarre children of our Solar System"
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Hi HG, > the scenario i imagined while sleepless is as follows: > (1) ... high density terrestrial-type planet M ... with mass ten times planet Earth ... and having > retrograde motion ... enters the Solar system OK, rogue planet. Such a thing is certainly possible. > (2) ... low density gas giant-type planet J ... with mass four hundred times planet Earth ... > rotates prograde around Sol Sounds like Jupiter. > (3) ... planet M impacts planet J Sounds like the Shu Lin Li paper that has already been brought up a couple of times. > (4) ... as M oblates mass inside J its retrograde motion causes its nickel-iron core to migrate the > center-of-mass of J away from its center-of-rotation Wait.. you said M impacts J. Did you not read the Shu Lin Li paper that you've posted about twice? If an object 10 times the mass of Earth impacts an object 400 times the mass of Earth there won't be anything to ABLATE or any nickel-iron core to migrate. As the Shu Lin Li paper discusses planetary cores get vaporized in such a collision. The energy released would be tremendous! Shoemaker-Levy 9 released an enormous amount of energy when it impacted Jupiter. A planet 10 times the mass of Jupiter wouldn't leave any cores to migrate. > (5) ... as J rotates prograde ... the eccentric mass distribution become so great that rotational forces cause the retrograde core of M to be ejected from the surface of J What core of M? I suggest you spend some time understanding the forces involved here. Two large planets impacting each other is a catastrophic event. And even if you were to gingerly sit a 10 Earth mass planet on a 400 Earth mass giant such as Jupiter their combined gravity couldn't be split apart by rotational forces. > (6) ... having been ejected from J ... M continues retrograde motion within the Solar system until equilibrium is reached What equilibrium? What ejection? > this scenario is consistent with the current retrograde motion of ""the unexplained bizarre CHILD of our Solar System" ... Venus This scenario is even more cartoonish than Velikovsky's stuff. You are trying to support Velikovsky events with physics which even Velikovsky admitted couldn't be done. That's why back in the 1960's Ralph Juergens invented the Electric Universe hypothesis. Since Velikovsky tales violated everything about physics and celestial mechanics he tried to come up with an alternate universe that would allow such things to happen... but 50 years of space science has shown the electric universe is not workable either. Interesting ideas HG, but you really need to understand the forces involved. There is a reason Einstein told his friend Velikovsky that his Venus scenario was in no way realistic. Cheers Jim |
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4142
From: horst graben, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: correction ... should be "as M ABLATES mass inside J"
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"Ablation is removal of material from the surface of an object ..." thus ... in the scenario envisioned ... surface layers of the terrestrial-type planet M are ablated as it descends into the depths of the gas giant-type planet J ablation effect would be even more pronounced because retrograde rotation of the descending mass of M would increase abrasion by prograde rotation of the interior of J |
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