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7702 |
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Date: August 30, 2012 at 08:48:28
From: sheila, [DNS_Address]
Subject: just heard CNN: Dam failure, 90 minutes to evacuate, 10-12 ft surge! |
URL: http://www.wafb.com/story/19417024/dam-failing-leads-to-mandatory-evacuation-along-tangipahoa-river |
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as of about 8:30am, PDT this morning (Thursday) Tangipahoa (sp?) dam in Mississippi just failed, and it appears that thousands of residents below this dam have to evacuate pronto. They said that a 10-12 ft. surge of water is expected to be on the way to several communities! This dam is above Lake Ponchetrain by what looks to be a couple of miles or so. That lake is already full and about to overtop it's banks too!
This is the only news about the actual failure of this dam I could find at the link. More to follow as this is an extreme emergency. Prayers to all those in harm's way.
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Responses:
[7706] [7715] [7711] [7714] [7713] [7718] [7709] [7710] [7717] [7719] [7707] [7704] [7705] [7703] |
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7706 |
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Date: August 30, 2012 at 22:51:08
From: Audrey/Idaho, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Answer me this... |
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...Why do people live in a swamp?
All these coastal areas are flood plains, estuaries, swamps. They have always been so. People have known that for hundreds of years. They also know that storms come in, usually several times a year. They know hurricanes and floods are a constant problem.
They don't build to accommodate storms, but they are devastated when a storm destroys their house or business.
They build dams and levees and expect to keep the OCEAN out.
I've known for over a week that Isaac was moving into the Gulf area yet I see stories on TV of rescues of over a hundred people here, and more over there; people who didn't leave before the storm hit and didn't prepare to sit it out. Now they need to be rescued!
The same for Florida. That peninsula is nothing but a great big sandbar only a few feet above sea level. Yet I see enormous ugly skyscrapers all over the place, right on the shore, just daring the next hurricane to tear it apart. Millions in damanges to property every time a storm passes. And millions spent to even 'restore' coastline. It's as if they just don't understand that this is nature's way.
I realize there is no such place as a 'perfectly safe' place to live but it seems to me that these people are just asking for trouble.
Are people just stupid or is it man's need to try to control nature, or what?
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Responses:
[7715] [7711] [7714] [7713] [7718] [7709] [7710] [7717] [7719] [7707] |
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7715 |
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Date: August 31, 2012 at 11:41:29
From: sheila, [DNS_Address]
Subject: some areas that flooded had never flooded before |
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not even during Katrina. Maybe we should be paying attention to climate change and which areas will no longer be livable due to extreme weather events becoming the new normal - I don't know!
I do know that when folks live in an area where they've had generations of their kin there, it's really hard to leave when they love it so much.
Many areas that used to be considered safe from floods are now experiencing 100, 500 year events every 5-10 years from what I've been reading. That's my .02 cents worth!
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7711 |
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Date: August 31, 2012 at 07:44:25
From: Bill Silver Eagle, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: Answer me this... |
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Actually, this area is not in the coastal lowlands. When "reviewing" the location in Google Earth the river elevation at the outflow of the damn is around 310 feet above sea level. The shoreline elevation around most of the lake is 335 feet above sea level. Meaning this "lake" has only around twenty-five feet as maximum depth. The lake level is indicated at 328 feet feet above sea level, so average depth maybe 18 feet. The lake is about 1/2 mile wide and about 1 1/4 miles long. The dam structure is 4/10th's of a mile long, earthen-berm like structure with about 142 feet of concrete-structure and spillway. Now using simple math, and not accounting for the irregular shaped shoreline and definately not constant depth, a cube 1/2 mile wide, 1 1/4 miles long and 20 feet deep would result in 348,480,000 cubic feet of water.
The village of Chatawa, MS is about 8 1/2 miles as the crow-flies from the damn. Here the river elevation shows 244 feet above sea level, and the adjacent lands and nearest home is at 262 feet above sea level. The river elevation of 244 feet is about 66 feet below the base elevation (estimated) of the dam.
I'll admit, I'm not much on fluid dynamics or water physics, but something just don't seem to add up. 8 1/2 miles equals 44,880 feet. To achieve an eight foot high wall of water that far down stream, let's say 500 feet wide, would require the displacement of approximately 89,760,000 cubic feet of water or 25.75-percent of the lakes water volume.
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[7714] [7713] [7718] |
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7714 |
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Date: August 31, 2012 at 10:59:19
From: sheila, [DNS_Address]
Subject: they're releasing water from the dam as of yesterday |
URL: http://blog.gulflive.com/mississippi-press-news/2012/08/release_of_water_from_mccombs.html |
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to relieve pressure. Here's some details about the lake and release, and what would have happened had the dam breached. Remembering that the lake is 3-4 ft above normal level given all the rain they had. Well that and remembering all the debris these crests take in on the way down river as they travel so it would be more like a 17 ft. crest according to Jindal.
On Thursday, authorities began a controlled release of water from Lake Tangipahoa while repairing two 70-foot-wide areas where mud and grass slid off after two days of Isaac's hammering rain. Officials said the work continued overnight into early Friday to reduce stress on the levee.
Louisiana National Guard helicopters are placing boulders on the dam to help ensure it doesn't fail. The Mississippi National Guard is also on the scene with bulldozers and trackhoes.
"We'll remove some of the roadway and allow some of the pressure of the high water to simply go into the fields, lowering the threat," Bryant said Thursday at a news conference at the lake.
Bryant said he had talked to Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal about the dam. Precautions are being taken to protect residents downstream from the 700 acre lake and near the Tangipahoa River should the dam fail.
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Ramie Ford, director of Mississippi state parks, said the plan was to slowly let about 8 feet of water out of a lake that is 3 to 4 feet higher than normal, reducing stress on the levee.
"The water flow will be controlled by us and not Mother Nature. So no one should be in harm's way," Ford said.
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It will be a few days before evacuees can return, Jindal said. If the dam broke, he said, it could cause a 17-foot crest on the river that would threaten 40,000 to 60,000 people in the parish with flooding. Water levels would be like those in the record flood of 1983, which was caused by a disruption in the flood plain from bridge construction on Interstate 12 and flooded hundreds of homes in and around Robert., La.
"This would be a significant, significant flooding event for Tangipahoa Parish," Jindal said.
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7713 |
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Date: August 31, 2012 at 08:42:33
From: chatillion, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Bill - Re: Answer me this... |
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Are you and BSE one and the same?
...just to end my uncertanty...
Thanks.
CC
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[7718] |
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7718 |
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Date: August 31, 2012 at 17:25:30
From: Bill Silver Eagle, [DNS_Address]
Subject: BSE = Bill Silver Eagle .... |
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yes CC, sometimes when it's just a quick answer I'll just use BSE
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7709 |
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Date: August 31, 2012 at 05:13:27
From: chatillion, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: Answer me this... |
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Why do people live in earthquake prone areas?
Why do people live in tornado 'alleys'?
Why do people live in volcanic areas?
Your seafood comes from these flood plains, estuaries, swamps. Much of your other food products and raw materials come from these areas, too.
That's just to begin with......
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[7710] [7717] [7719] |
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7710 |
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Date: August 31, 2012 at 06:07:42
From: BSE, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: Answer me this... |
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In addition to chatillion's
Why do people live in earthquake prone areas?
Why do people live in tornado 'alleys'?
Why do people live in volcanic areas?
Let's not forget the thousands in California that live up in the foothills and canyons that have been repeatedly engulfed by wildfires?
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[7717] [7719] |
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7717 |
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Date: August 31, 2012 at 15:53:03
From: Polydactyl in N. Bay, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: Answer me this... |
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Yep, living is a risky business- :)
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[7719] |
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7719 |
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Date: August 31, 2012 at 17:30:03
From: Bill Silver Eagle, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: living is a risky business- :) |
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Not really, when you (or as my wife and I did) listen to knowledgable elders ... after we were married, and it was known we were looking for a place to live, our elders counciled us to buy rural, buy high-ground, buy with a water-source or water-access, buy where there is plenty of wild game, buy as much land/acreage as your budget allows, and lastly learn the basics of living off the land quickly.
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7707 |
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Date: August 31, 2012 at 00:34:07
From: Polydactyl in N. Bay, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: Answer me this... |
URL: Paul Klee's Boat/ Best Poems by Anzhelina Polonskaya |
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I've pondered the same myself, over and over. When I went to a conference in New Orleans long ago, someone mentioned that we were below sea level. My gut instinct was 'WHUT'? I absolutely knew at that time that the place would eventually get flooded out and over. Some people run away from sensed, perceived danger, while others don't sense, or don't run, or figure their mind will trump the physical. The intuitive senses the danger and runs, not necessarily from logical evidence or an 'idea' of danger, but more from a feeling of danger that comes from multi-sensory perception that persistently intrudes on thought- :).
This poem says it all for me:
"It sails along, the fool, not knowing --
can’t brush the wave from its eyelash."
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7704 |
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Date: August 30, 2012 at 10:04:32
From: sheila, [DNS_Address]
Subject: NOAA: URGENT CIVIL EMERGENCY MESSAGE |
URL: http://www.wwltv.com/live-stream/exempt |
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watching the live streaming video news at the link, people are getting out of these areas as fast as they can. Rivers rising quickly. Initially there was a 90 minute warning. Some say the dam isn't breached, others saying it is. Frantic efforts to evacuate now.
URGENT - IMMEDIATE BROADCAST REQUESTED
CIVIL EMERGENCY MESSAGE
LOUISIANA EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT AGENCY NEW ORLEANS LOUISIANA
RELAYED BY NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE NEW ORLEANS LA
1108 AM CDT THU AUG 30 2012
THE FOLLOWING MESSAGE IS TRANSMITTED AT THE REQUEST OF THE
MISSISSIPPI EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT AGENCY.
A MANDATORY EVACUATION HAS BEEN ORDERED FOR ALL LOW LYING AREAS
AND ALONG THE TANGIPAHOA RIVER DUE TO THE POTENTIAL FAILURE OF THE
LAKE TANGIPAHOA DAM...ALSO KNOWN AS THE PERCY QUIN DAM...IN
SOUTHERN MISSISSIPPI. AGAIN...A MANDATORY EVACUATION HAS BEEN
ORDERED FOR ALL LOW LYING AREAS AND ALONG THE TANGIPAHOA RIVER DUE
TO THE POTENTIAL FAILURE OF THE LAKE TANGIPAHOA DAM...ALSO KNOWN
AS THE PERCY QUIN DAM...IN SOUTHERN MISSISSIPPI.
DUE TO THE DAM FAILURE...WATER LEVELS ON THE TANGIPAHOA RIVER NEAR
CHATAWA AND OSYKA WILL RISE QUICKLY. NEAR OSYKA...THE RIVER WILL
RISE TO NEAR 21.5 FEET. THIS WILL BREAK THE RECORD PREVIOUSLY SET
IN 1997. AT 21 FEET...THE RIVER WILL THREATEN THE ROADWAY APPROACH
TO HIGHWAY 584 AND WILL INUNDATE THE SURROUNDING AREAS. IF YOU
LIVE IN THESE AREAS...LEAVE IMMEDIATELY FOR HIGHER GROUND.
https://nwschat.weather.gov/p.php?pid=201208301608-KLIX-WOUS44-CEMLIX
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[7705] |
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7705 |
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Date: August 30, 2012 at 13:52:38
From: Dr. Turi , [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: NOAA: URGENT CIVIL EMERGENCY MESSAGE |
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SOMEBODY MUST BE RIGHT!
USUALLY IT'S NOT ME!
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7703 |
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Date: August 30, 2012 at 09:01:24
From: sheila, [DNS_Address]
Subject: 50-60,000 people impacted by dam breach, mandatory evacs. live video |
URL: http://www.wwltv.com/live-stream/exempt |
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live news at the link. They've been expecting this dam to fail for a couple of days so hope everybody gets out in time. They don't know how much of a surge this breach will cause yet. I've heard anything from 8-12 ft!!!
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Disasters ] [ Main Menu ] |