Date: December 09, 2017 at 03:09:47 From: Teshuvah, [DNS_Address] Subject: Questions - Polydactyl in N. Bay and anyone else
1. Polydactyl asked somewhere about whether there were helpers with the fires. I can't find that post now. That reminded me about this link I saw. I know nothing about the subject so don't attack the messenger. I don't know what enemies would do this but could guess...Antifa, illegal immigrants, Jihadis, Deep State...the list goes on.
2. Is there currently any legislation about what plants you cannot plant on your property? Will there likely be now? Are their any plants that can withstand Santa Ana winds?
3. I recall Bend, OR has made some law or statement about cedar shake roofs. Is there currently any legislation about roofing materials?
4. Is there a death and injured toll so far? How many dwellings have been destroyed?
Date: December 09, 2017 at 04:08:52 From: Redhart, [DNS_Address] Subject: Re: Questions - Polydactyl in N. Bay and anyone else
The japanese attempted to drop incindiary devises by balloon on the northwest in WWII, I understand. It's always a possibility, but there were enough natural conditions going on at the time that I'm guessing at least the initial fire happened by accidental ignition or a natural cause. Humidity was at an all time low in the area, then 70mph gust..and no rain in the ventura area since last April!. Just took a spark from literally anything.
that being said, fire bugs and other sick people watching the first one may have jumped in to start others. All fires are being fully investigated now as arson investigators can get into areas. We should know shortly the causes.
2.--each county, town, city has it's own laws. I live in a wildland area which is prone to fire outbreaks at time. We do have special laws here...for instance, all grass and brush MUST be cleared to 100 feet around homes and structures on property, and road facing land must be trimmed 10' back from road ways. Failure to do so is $300-500 fine for first offense. We have "strong suggestions" as well... like eucalyptus trees are not a great choice and discouraged. They're full of oil and go up like roman candles. People are warned about putting too many trees and burnable landscape right next to houses. Firewood has to be at least 30 feet away from houses, as do propane tanks. Ventura, LA and San Diego might have additional rules,regs and suggestions for their specific areas. We also pay an extra wildland fire special tax in this area to help offset the cost of fighting wildfires. It's about $115/yr for our household.
As far as plants that can withstand the strong santa anas--well, since the Santa Ana's arrive every fall like clockwork, you would shortly know what will and won't survive. Plants that have been here years can. Plants that can't won't last past their first year.
3. There is definitely rules about shake roofs. You can't get a permit for one. they have to be composite, tile or metal... period. One would be an idiot to put one on their house themselves as it doesn't take much more than an ember from a distant fire to light one up. They have some very nice tiles that look like shake if you like that look, however.
4. They found a body near the ignition point of the Thomas (Ventura) fire. They are unsure if it was dead before the fire, or the fire killed the woman. She was found in her car. Autopsy's pending. Another man was killed in a traffic accident while trying to evacuate. In the Lilac fire in San Diego, there's a woman in a coma with 50% burns from trying to save all those horses. a couple horses didn't make it...many were saved. In the Creek fire, same kind of situation, owner unable to even get to her horses to save them before the fire swept over and 29 died in their paddocks. There were also injured firefighters with burns, sprains and smoke inhalation reported. I know there were at least 18 houses reported destroyed in the Creek fire, 4 in the Skirball fire, 65 in the Lilac fire and well over 450 in the Thomas fire. some of these areas are still too hot or still on fire to get a final, accurate count, so those numbers are likely to still rise.
Date: December 09, 2017 at 13:26:43 From: Teshuvah, [DNS_Address] Subject: Re: Questions - Redhart
>>>3. There is definitely rules about shake roofs. You can't get a permit for one. they have to be composite, tile or metal... period. One would be an idiot to put one on their house themselves as it doesn't take much more than an ember from a distant fire to light one up.
In the old days they really did put cedar shakes on houses in Bend, OR. You could tell who the idiots were because their houses burned down.
You are a veritable mine of information. Thanks. :)
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Date: December 09, 2017 at 04:39:41 From: Redhart, [DNS_Address] Subject: Re: Questions - Polydactyl in N. Bay and anyone else/first death conf
article just came in on that woman's body found in the Thomas (Ventura) fire:
"The first fire-related fatality from a series of wildfires that have covered Southern California in smoke and ash was confirmed Friday, authorities said.
Virginia Pesola, 70, of Santa Paula, was found dead in a car that had been involved in a crash along an evacuation route in a burn area of the Thomas fire in Ventura County on Wednesday night. According to the county medical examiner, Pesola’s cause of death was blunt force trauma with terminal smoke inhalation and thermal injuries.
“The death involved a traffic incident during active fire evacuation,” the medical examiner wrote in a news release. She had been reporting missing after the evacuation."
so,they are going to attribute this death to the fire.
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Date: December 09, 2017 at 04:30:42 From: Teshuvah, [DNS_Address] Subject: Re: Questions - Polydactyl in N. Bay and anyone else
Well, thanks for all that. Very informative.
>>>like eucalyptus trees are not a great choice and discouraged. They're full of oil and go up like roman candles.
Yes. It was eucalyptus (gum) trees that were responsible for a big fire West of Sydney, AU a few years ago. They really burn fast. Pines do, too. It was rumored arsonists were setting them on fire. Odd thing about gum trees. We had a long shelterbelt of them 250 meters long where we used to live. Down at the end was one by itself because its nearest neighboring tree had died. When we approached it with a lawnmower, it visibly shook its leaves enough to make a noise as though it was frightened of the sound of the mower. It really was a reminder of nature having feelings of some sort. I haven't seen that happen with any tree other than Gum trees.
When the fire goes underground in roots, they have to keep returning to put them out.
I recall reading that at the time of the Tillamook Burn in Oregon in 1933 there was an enormous forest fire and ships 500 miles out to sea reported embers falling on their decks blown by the winds. Amazing!
What about landslips...slides in the future after these fires? The hills won't have roots to hold them in place. Will there be a lot of slides when the rains start?
Date: December 09, 2017 at 12:51:29 From: Teshuvah, [DNS_Address] Subject: Re: Questions - Redhart - gum tree trauma
>>>and..btw,that's really weird about your gum trees "shaking with fear", would love to see a video of that!
I can't get anything to perform on command so a video is unlikely. Seeing it the first time and not being the sort to tear wings off of flies or tease little children, I won't be going for a second. I suppose you could run a noisy lawnmower up to a gum tree and see what happens. The other gums in our shelterbelt didn't care but perhaps because they had more friends around them.
My husband have discussed and joked about why this happened. I said the noise hurt their ears and wondered under which limb those were located. He is more practical and thought the vibration did it.
I found another example of it. In one of the most fascinating articles on the dangers of the Juan de Fuca there is a possible similar case. Scroll down to the bold.
"When the 2011 earthquake and tsunami struck Tohoku, Japan, Chris Goldfinger was two hundred miles away, in the city of Kashiwa, at an international meeting on seismology. As the shaking started, everyone in the room began to laugh. Earthquakes are common in Japan—that one was the third of the week—and the participants were, after all, at a seismology conference. Then everyone in the room checked the time.
Seismologists know that how long an earthquake lasts is a decent proxy for its magnitude. The 1989 earthquake in Loma Prieta, California, which killed sixty-three people and caused six billion dollars’ worth of damage, lasted about fifteen seconds and had a magnitude of 6.9. A thirty-second earthquake generally has a magnitude in the mid-sevens. A minute-long quake is in the high sevens, a two-minute quake has entered the eights, and a three-minute quake is in the high eights. By four minutes, an earthquake has hit magnitude 9.0.
When Goldfinger looked at his watch, it was quarter to three. The conference was wrapping up for the day. He was thinking about sushi. The speaker at the lectern was wondering if he should carry on with his talk. The earthquake was not particularly strong. Then it ticked past the sixty-second mark, making it longer than the others that week. The shaking intensified. The seats in the conference room were small plastic desks with wheels. Goldfinger, who is tall and solidly built, thought, No way am I crouching under one of those for cover. At a minute and a half, everyone in the room got up and went outside.
It was March. There was a chill in the air, and snow flurries, but no snow on the ground. Nor, from the feel of it, was there ground on the ground. The earth snapped and popped and rippled. It was, Goldfinger thought, like driving through rocky terrain in a vehicle with no shocks, if both the vehicle and the terrain were also on a raft in high seas. The quake passed the two-minute mark. The trees, still hung with the previous autumn’s dead leaves, were making a strange rattling sound. The flagpole atop the building he and his colleagues had just vacated was whipping through an arc of forty degrees. The building itself was base-isolated, a seismic-safety technology in which the body of a structure rests on movable bearings rather than directly on its foundation. Goldfinger lurched over to take a look. The base was lurching, too, back and forth a foot at a time, digging a trench in the yard. He thought better of it, and lurched away. His watch swept past the three-minute mark and kept going.
Oh, shit, Goldfinger thought, although not in dread, at first: in amazement. For decades, seismologists had believed that Japan could not experience an earthquake stronger than magnitude 8.4. In 2005, however, at a conference in Hokudan, a Japanese geologist named Yasutaka Ikeda had argued that the nation should expect a magnitude 9.0 in the near future—with catastrophic consequences, because Japan’s famous earthquake-and-tsunami preparedness, including the height of its sea walls, was based on incorrect science. ...click for the rest."
Date: December 09, 2017 at 15:07:31 From: Redhart, [DNS_Address] Subject: Re: Questions - Redhart - gum tree trauma
Hmmm... I think I would have had to see that. Seismic waves are not all the same. I was in the Loma Prieta quake, and the different types were very noticeable. It started with a P-wave (compression waves). This wave feels like a vibration. We actually thought a large truck was going by. My pencil vibrated across the desk during this. The vibration at this frequency hits the harmonics of certain things. It could be what the tree were rattling about. Hard to tell without being there, I guess.
S-waves (surface) felt like the truck hit the building lol.
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Date: December 09, 2017 at 13:11:13 From: Teshuvah, [DNS_Address] Subject: Re: Questions - Redhart - gum tree trauma
No wonder the leaves shake. There are Biblical references to:
* the seas roar, the fields rejoice, the trees of the wood sing out, and the mountains and the hills shall break forth before you into singing, * all the trees of the field shall clap their hands and * the rocks crying out and the earth groans.
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Date: December 09, 2017 at 04:50:52 From: Redhart, [DNS_Address] Subject: Re: Questions - Polydactyl in N. Bay and anyone else
Slides in burn areas are always a concern. They do come in and attempt to do erosion control measures around residences. But, I've also seen officials pre-evacuate people when nasty storms come in shortly after fires had burned through, just to make sure these people are lost in slides as a result.
Coast areas of California have soils that tend to do a lot of sliding(sedimentary, clay and sands). The sierras have them, but far less as it's a different kind of soil up here (lots of basalts and granites and gravels from that).
For incoming winter storms,they often send out alerts to people living in previous burn areas to make sure they are keeping a watchful eye for signs of any slide or flash flood issues. First year burn scars are the most dangerous for that. After a year or two, brush, grasses and new seedling trees move in and it becomes less dangerous each new year.
Our side business for years was fire-hazard reduction every spring and summer. We would be hired to make sure people's properties were as safe as could be made possible before fire season (which usually starts first week of June). That would include removing dead limbs, trees and debris; relocating fire hazards like firewood and such to the recommended distance from structures, removing ladder material (grasses and small shrubs that go from the ground up into trees and can create a ladder for fires) and making sure bottom's of trees are clear; and of course clearing grass and brush to recommended distances from homes and making the home "defensible". Just tossing out some bonafides as to why some people may be wondering shy I'm such a geek about fire safety and behavior lol.
Date: December 09, 2017 at 05:15:28 From: Teshuvah, [DNS_Address] Subject: Re: Questions - Polydactyl in N. Bay and anyone else
>>>Our side business for years was fire-hazard reduction every spring and summer. We would be hired to make sure people's properties were as safe as could be made possible before fire season...
Very good. Clearly you are way above average in what to do about fires.
Here they have sheep and they graze property down really close. Farmers also use helicopters to control weeds and spray brush.
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Date: December 09, 2017 at 04:54:34 From: Redhart, [DNS_Address] Subject: Re: Questions - Polydactyl in N. Bay and anyone else
That first paragraph "make sure these people are lost in slides" should read NOT lost in slides.
Been up all night with a recovering dog...not quite as sharp at 4:30am as I was at 8:30pm lol.
Date: December 09, 2017 at 05:23:17 From: Redhart, [DNS_Address] Subject: Re: Questions - Polydactyl in N. Bay and anyone else
Sadie's a 13 yr old lab mix. She had a tumor removed off her side and is recovering. brought her home from the vet earlier--so first day/night home. Just making sure she's getting her meds on time, drinking,eating and gentle escorts outside when needed. She should make a full recovery--but, I wanted to stay up with her this first critical night just to make sure all continues to go well.
Date: December 09, 2017 at 12:32:42 From: sheila, [DNS_Address] Subject: Re: Questions - Polydactyl in N. Bay and anyone else
good to know you were there for her Redhart. Sounds like she's going to be healing and return to being healthy. I had to take a day off from even seeing these fires, so darned heartbreaking, especially after reading about the 30-40 horses that died at the San Luis Rey training facility for thoroughbred racing horses near Del Mar. Guess I should post a story about this above. Take care, Sheila
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Date: December 09, 2017 at 05:35:27 From: Teshuvah, [DNS_Address] Subject: Re: Questions - Polydactyl in N. Bay and anyone else
That's very kind of you. I'm sure she appreciates the attention from Mom. Our vet called once after our Doberman had gastric tortion surgery and said we needed to get down there and comfort the dog in order for him to develop some hope and recover.
Currently we have Maltese that get really freaked out in thunderstorms and high winds which we have had recently.