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25963 |
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Date: March 10, 2025 at 09:16:06
From: shadow , [DNS_Address]
Subject: It's never failed to amaze me, that anyone can believe that.... |
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...all one *is asked to do,* in order to say that one is
not only fully versed in the tenets of their chosen
religion, but a master of those tenets, if they but
*confess their sins to an official priest* on a regular
basis and do the penance said priest prescribes. End of.
A person can commit murder, beat their partner, comprise
legislation that murders thousands, be a racist inhumane
moneygrubbing a**hole and, off to a priest you go and,
woosh! Byebye human accountability! as they grin their
ways to the bank and their hollow blood-soaked
lives...believing wholeheartedly that they are fully
absolved of their inhumane ugliness...
Seriously?
How does anyone imagine this is actually spiritual truth
in action? Just because some human men in the third
century managed to get a certain arrangement of fear-
based dogmatic writings pronounced as supreme God-
inspired spiritual truth, and published as The Word to be
followed by Their Human King? Under pain of death and
threat of hell? How does anyone imagine such a system
could hold merit for the levels of experiential humane(e)
education actual spiritual-truth real-ization requires?
I've never taken any issue with anyone's choice of
belief, regardless of my own -- only when a belief other
than my own is being wielded as a weapon against me,
pretending they have God on their side in doing
so...because that has nothing to do with God, and I won't
have it...
Times like these, I can't keep silent when those
embracing this religion and other fear-based GOPer/MAGA
religious strongholds USE it as rationale for
dominating/disrespecting/murdering/others...
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Responses:
[25964] [25966] [25969] [25971] [25973] [25974] [25972] |
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25964 |
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Date: March 10, 2025 at 09:58:25
From: ao, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: It's never failed to amaze me, that anyone can believe that.... |
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“How does anyone imagine this is actually spiritual truth in action?”
Great question, and one I imagine, hope, expect, someone, Chas? can
enlighten us to the specifics? How does that work? At one point he
suggested, specifically, that god forgets. Literally “your sins are
forgotten.” Not like the dead person’s family forgets, but god does.
Same same. You can be raped, and traumatized, scared for life, and god
forgets the rape ever happened when the rapist shows up to the
confessional.. but the raped? Oh no, they don’t forget, they’re, literally,
fucked up for the rest of their life.
Maybe if they ask a priest for forgiveness they too can forget, but I ain’t
ever heard of it. Maybe, again, some of the more enlightened amongst us
can shed some light on how all this works. I suspect they’ll say it’s a
great opportunity for the raped to learn forgiveness.. but hey let’s not get
ahead of ourselves.. they’re still traumatized for every minute of their
life.. though I imagine Chas can tell us why that’s a good thing.
Thanks for the insightful question. I am looking forward to learning
something when those more learned than I chime in with their thoughts.
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Responses:
[25966] [25969] [25971] [25973] [25974] [25972] |
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25966 |
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Date: March 10, 2025 at 11:08:22
From: shadow, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: It's never failed to amaze me, that anyone can believe that.... |
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Thanks, ao...and I'll bet you dollars to donuts someone
(if anyone does) will reply that it's God's Infinite
Love...so beyond our understanding in its complete
absence of limitation...that makes it possible for
*simple forgiveness of sins* to be the entirety of
necessary understanding in the Fundamentalist Christian
religion...
(...because that's happened very often for me when I've
brought up this point in discussions w/religious folk,
especially Catholics, before...)
Thing is...(and pardon my eyeroll; this gets tedious to
point out for the gajillionth time! lol)...*that just
doesn't answer my question*....so I'm putting this right
out front, to nip the nonanswer in the bud...
Spiritual truth is meant/intended to help us, as lowly
ignorant humans, to *find our ways into living lives
supported by God/Spirit, as we know That to be, doing our
best to emulate and live spiritual qualities*... My
QUESTION was: How does the Christian Fundamentalist
teaching that confessing one's sins...either to a Priest
with Catholicism, or to a pastor or directly to God, with
other factions...is the one-step absolution of
wrongdoing, the be-all and end-all of *what all one must
learn, how one must evolve, in order TO learn one's way
out of fear-based, immature human qualities and into
emulating spiritual qualities like honesty,
accountability, integrity, patience, altruism, moral
courage...???
THAT'S the answer I'm looking for...and I anticipate a
cricket symphony...
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Responses:
[25969] [25971] [25973] [25974] [25972] |
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25969 |
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Date: March 10, 2025 at 11:42:04
From: chaskuchar@stcharlesmo, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: It's never failed to amaze me, that anyone can believe that.... |
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when you confess, you have to mean it and don't do it
again. you have to provide retribution. if you steal,
you have to pr4ovide retribution if possible. if you
rape, you have to go to the person and comply with their
actions. only then will God forgive you. it has to b e
meaningful.
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Responses:
[25971] [25973] [25974] [25972] |
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25971 |
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Date: March 10, 2025 at 12:17:27
From: shadow, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: It's never failed to amaze me, that anyone can believe that.... |
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Well, yes, charlie...it stands to reason that whatever
confession offered has to be genuine, complete with actual
remorse...but here you're responding to my having mentioned
how utterly incomplete *the phenomenon of forgiveness of
sins* being the sole focus of character
development/evolution is, in your religion.....
And, once more yet again: That was not my question...
Any chance you could read it *one more time* and actually
answer it? I won't retype it again...
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Responses:
[25973] [25974] [25972] |
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25973 |
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Date: March 10, 2025 at 15:34:35
From: chaskuchar@stcharlesmo, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: It's never failed to amaze me, that anyone can believe that.... |
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A person can commit murder, beat their partner,
comprise
legislation that murders thousands, be a racist
inhumane
moneygrubbing a**hole and, off to a priest you go and,
woosh! Byebye human accountability! as they grin their
ways to the bank and their hollow blood-soaked
lives...believing wholeheartedly that they are fully
absolved of their inhumane ugliness...
Seriously?
if that is your question they are not forgiven. they
have to do recompense and change their lives to be
forgiven.
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Responses:
[25974] |
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25974 |
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Date: March 10, 2025 at 17:52:05
From: shadow, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: It's never failed to amaze me, that anyone can believe that.... |
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Yes, I was serious as a heart attack...and I should've
known no one around here who identifies as GOP Christian
would even really comprehend what I was asking or venture
to answer...
...so I'll just reframe this as a comment...stepping
momentarily outside my stance of respecting all spiritual
paths equally, to say how incredibly disingenuous,
falsehearted and downright deceptive it is for the GOP
party and those who support them to utilize *Christian
Fundamentalism* as their *moral base,* when Christian
Fundamentalism offers pretty much zero in the way of
counseling toward understanding human behavior and how
it's unconsciously patterned and doomed to repeat without
the insight and understanding derived through conscious
self-awareness...
"Genuine confession" and *promising to do better* does
nothing whatsoever to address the root psychoemotional
causes of inhumane behavior toward others...and that was
by undivine design by those who created the tenets of
that religion...so that human beings would have a far
harder time seeking out and finding the keys to
*understanding self* and how and why we behave as we
do...
And yes...now that the GOP is trying to make their
religion fascist law, I take massive issue with that...
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Responses:
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25972 |
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Date: March 10, 2025 at 15:24:21
From: ao, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: It's never failed to amaze me, that anyone can believe that.... |
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And, btw, I vote yes all wrongs need a way to come to an end. The wronged
have to forgive and the one that has wronged be free to grow from their
"mistakes"
But I don't think the confessional frees a person from the karma of their
actions. It may help them to set their mind/heart to the task but forgive?
I worked very closely with one, an embodied, that could see, and was a way to
deal with karma, and sincerity was just the beginning. There's a whole lot more
than a simple penance involved in the quickening of one's payment of debt.
And even then.. a person may truly pay the piper, and still they have to live the
life the karma set in motion to begin with. So yeah, karma can be freed, but
still the psychology of the life that bore the karma has to be lived through
minute by minute no matter.
All that christian stuff.. promising salvation without accountability.. rather than
teaching accountability upfront (as G and others have tried to do) seems like a
sales pitch to me.
Jesus said we shall do all he has and more. It really is simply the hardest thing
imaginable.. and yet they sell salvation as a walk in the park rather than point
out how much work it is to know grace so emphatically as to love another while
they drive spikes into your flesh..
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