[ Charles : Bible : Religion ] [ Main Menu ]
24753
From: Nevada, [DNS_Address]
Subject: ...Gaza: only thing missing are the gas chambers?
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...apparently the Bible is quoted as justification? How ironic that this years Christmas gift from the United States to the Holy Land and the birthplace of Christ are "manger busting bombs" and the instruments of war. And some suggest that we "fear" God? John Mearsheimer apparently has a lot to say about the role of Israel and America in taking the concept of genocide to new heights. John is a professor of geo- politics at Chicago University who's not afraid to tell the world how he feels about the hole his own country is digging for the world at large. As a kid I was taught about the antics of Uncle Scrooge at Christmas time and thought that was bad. How times have changed. Death and Destruction in Gaza JOHN J. MEARSHEIMER DEC 12 READ IN APP: I do not believe that anything I say about what is happening in Gaza will affect Israeli or American policy in that conflict. But I want to be on record so that when historians look back on this moral calamity, they will see that some Americans were on the right side of history. What Israel is doing in Gaza to the Palestinian civilian population – with the support of the Biden administration – is a crime against humanity that serves no meaningful military purpose. As J-Street, an important organization in the Israel lobby, puts it, “The scope of the unfolding humanitarian disaster and civilian casualties is nearly unfathomable.”[1] Let me elaborate. First, Israel is purposely massacring huge number of civilians, roughly 70 percent of whom are children and women. The claim that Israel is going to great lengths to minimize civilian casualties is belied by statements from high level Israeli officials. For example, the IDF spokesman said on 10 October 2023 that "the emphasis is on damage and not on accuracy." That same day, Defense Minister Yoav Gallant announced: "I have lowered all the restraints – we will kill everyone we fight against; we will use every means."[2] Moreover, it is clear from the results of the bombing campaign that Israel is indiscriminately killing civilians. Two detailed studies of the IDF’s bombing campaign – both published in Israeli outlets – explain in detail how Israel is murdering huge numbers of civilians. It is worth quoting the titles of the two pieces, which succinctly capture what each has to say: “‘A Mass Assassination Factory’: Inside Israel’s Calculated Bombing of Gaza”[3] “The Israeli Army Has Dropped the Restraint in Gaza, and the Data Shows Unprecedented Killing.”[4] Similarly, the New York Times published an article in late November 2023 titled: “Gaza Civilians, Under Israeli Barrage, Are Being Killed at Historic Pace.”[5] Thus, it is hardly surprising that the UN Secretary General, Antonio Guterres, said that “We are witnessing a killing of civilians that is unparalleled and unprecedented in any conflict since” his appointment in January 2017.[6] Second, Israel is purposely starving the desperate Palestinian population by greatly limiting the amount of food, fuel, cooking gas, medicine, and water that can be brought into Gaza. Moreover, medical care is extremely hard to come by for a population that now includes approximately 50,000 wounded civilians. Not only has Israel greatly limited the supply of fuel into Gaza, which hospitals need to function, but it has targeted hospitals, ambulances, and first aid stations. Defense Minister Gallant’s comment on 9 October captures Israeli policy: "I have ordered a complete siege on the Gaza Strip. There will be no electricity, no food, no fuel, everything is closed. We are fighting human animals, and we are acting accordingly."[7] Israel has been forced to allow minimal supplies into Gaza, but the amounts are so small that a senior UN official reports that “half of Gaza’s population is starving.” He goes on to report that, “Nine out of 10 families in some areas are spending ‘a full day and night without any food at all’.”[8] Third, Israeli leaders talk about Palestinians and what they would like to do in Gaza in shocking terms, especially when you consider that some of these leaders also talk incessantly about the horrors of the Holocaust. Indeed, their rhetoric has led Omar Bartov, a prominent Israeli-born scholar of the Holocaust, to conclude that Israel has “genocidal intent.”[9] Other scholars in Holocaust and genocide studies have offered a similar warning.[10] To be more specific, it is commonplace for Israeli leaders to refer to Palestinians as “human animals, ”human beasts,” and “horrible inhuman animals.”[11] And as Israeli President Isaac Herzog makes clear, those leaders are referring to all Palestinians, not just Hamas: In his words, “It is an entire nation out there that is responsible.”[12] Unsurprisingly, as the New York Times reports, it is part of normal Israeli discourse to call for Gaza to be “flattened,” “erased,” or “destroyed.”[13] One retired IDF general, who proclaimed that “Gaza will become a place where no human being can exist,” also makes the case that “severe epidemics in the south of the Gaza Strip will bring victory closer.”[14] Going even further, a minister in the Israeli government suggested dropping a nuclear weapon on Gaza.[15] These statements are not being made by isolated extremists, but by senior members of Israel’s government. Of course, there is also much talk of ethnically cleansing Gaza (and the West Bank), in effect, producing another Nakba.[16] To quote Israel’s Agriculture Minister, “We are now rolling out the Gaza Nakba.”[17]Perhaps the most shocking evidence of the depths to which Israeli society has sunk is a video of very young children singing a blood-curdling song celebrating Israel’s destruction of Gaza: “Within a year we will annihilate everyone, and then we will return to plow our fields.”[18] Fourth, Israel is not just killing, wounding, and starving huge numbers of Palestinians, it is also systematically destroying their homes as well as critical infrastructure – to include mosques, schools, heritage sites, libraries, key government buildings, and hospitals.[19] As of 1 December 2023, the IDF had damaged or destroyed almost 100,000 buildings, including entire neighborhoods that have been reduced to rubble.[20] Consequently, a stunning 90 percent of Gaza’s 2.3 million Palestinians have been displaced from their homes.[21] Moreover, Israel is making a concerted effort to destroy Gaza’s cultural heritage; as NPR reports, “more than 100 Gaza heritage sites have been damaged or destroyed by Israeli attacks.”[22] Fifth, Israel is not just terrorizing and killing Palestinians, it is also publicly humiliating many of their men who have been rounded up by the IDF in routine searches. Israeli soldiers strip them down to their underwear, blindfold them, and display them in a public way in their neighborhoods – sitting them down in large groups in the middle of the street, for example, or parading them through the streets – before taking them away in trucks to detention camps. In most cases, the detainees are then released as they are not Hamas fighters.[23] Sixth, although the Israelis are doing the slaughtering, they could not do it without the Biden administration’s support. Not only was the United States the only country to vote against a recent UN Security Council resolution demanding an immediate ceasefire in Gaza, but it has also been providing Israel with the weaponry necessary to wage this massacre.[24] As one Israeli general (Yitzhak Brick) recently made clear: “All of our missiles, the ammunition, the precision-guided bombs, all the airplanes and bombs, it’s all from the U.S. The minute they turn off the tap, you can’t keep fighting. You have no capability.… Everyone understands that we can’t fight this war without the United States. Period.”[25] Remarkably, the Biden administration has sought to expedite sending Israel additional ammunition, by- passing the normal procedures of the Arms Export Control Act.[26] Seventh, while most of the focus is now on Gaza, it is important not to lose sight of what is simultaneously going on in the West Bank. Israeli settlers, working closely with the IDF, continue to kill innocent Palestinians and steal their land. In an excellent article in the New York Review of Books describing these horrors, David Shulman relates a conversation he had with a settler, which clearly reflects the moral dimension of Israeli behavior toward the Palestinians. “What we are doing to these people is actually inhuman,” the settler freely admits, “But if you think about it clearly, it all follows inevitably from the fact that God promised this land to the Jews, and only to them.”[27] Along with its assault on Gaza, the Israel government has markedly increased the number of arbitrary arrests in the West Bank. According to Amnesty International, there is considerable evidence that these prisoners have been tortured and subjected to degrading treatment.[28] As I watch this catastrophe for the Palestinians unfold, I am left with one simple question for Israel’s leaders, their American defenders, and the Biden administration: have you no decency? |
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24757
From: mr bopp, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: ...Gaza: only thing missing are the gas chambers?
| off topic dude... |
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[24773] [24759] [24761] [24762] [24771] [24767] [24768] [24770] [24763] [24769]
24773
From: Nevada, [DNS_Address]
Subject: ...fair enough Bopp:
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...it was never my intention to turn Bible/Religion into National/International and I apologize for that. Perhaps things will change in the future. |
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24759
From: Nevada, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: ...Gaza: only thing missing are the gas chambers?
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...pretty sure the topic has been discussed extensively in the Bible going back several thousand years. More than a few scholars would point out it's role in the current practice of genocide currently going on in Gaza and Israel. I realize this is an uncomfortable topic for you but unresolved, it has the firepower to destroy all life on earth as we know it. The bible discusses peace, love, respect, fear, vengeance, war, retribution, resolution and absolution and most certainly redemption and forgiveness. This is a religious holy war and we are the players. It should at least be discussed here in a spiritual context as does the Bible. |
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[24761] [24762] [24771] [24767] [24768] [24770] [24763] [24769]
24761
From: mr bopp, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: ...Gaza: only thing missing are the gas chambers?
| not uncomfortable at all...except the discomfort of knowing how ignorant we all are...anyway, we are not going to discuss the middle east conflict on this board...so be forewarned... |
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[24762] [24771] [24767] [24768] [24770] [24763] [24769]
24762
From: Nevada, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: ...Gaza: only thing missing are the gas chambers?
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If I'm not allowed to discuss this on Bible : Religion, would you allow me to discuss it on International? |
24771
From: mr bopp, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: ...Gaza: only thing missing are the gas chambers?
| no... |
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24767
From: Eve, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: ...Gaza: only thing missing are the gas chambers?
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24768
From: Nevada, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: ...Gaza: only thing missing are the gas chambers?
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I take it you agree with Charles Eve? I knew it was only a matter of time before we reached consensus. |
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[24770]
24770
From: Eve, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: ...Gaza: only thing missing are the gas chambers?
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24763
From: chaskuchar@stcharlesmo, [DNS_Address]
Subject: i would concur in that request. nt
| nt |
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[24769]
24769
From: Eve, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: i would concur in that request. nt
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I don't. |
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24755
From: Eve, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: ...Gaza: only thing missing are the gas chambers?
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Are you attempting to bring this board to a national soapboxing board level? Are you attempting to do so with a few comments of your own seeking to connect the Israel-Gaze war to Christmas and the holocaust plus take a side swipe at georg who mentioned "fear of the Lord" because you do not understand the meaning in spiritual ways only in flesh and blood ways? Why try to explain it to you whom block your own thoughts from moving outside the box of your own making? Why after a few of your snipe swipes do you post an article that is not related to faith or religion at all written by a American political scientist and international relations scholar as the main course of your post meal? I sense you are attempting to fashion this board into this to your personal National board sound off and just as you did there use others beliefs, faith, God and so on to incorporate your own brand of guru frufru snobbery. I wanted to say what is coming through for me in your recent posts as in fashioning it as a national soapboxing board. The main reason I stopped and looked at it was because of your "see if I can reel em in and hook em with this" subject title. Not that I have been reeled in or hooked as I was seeing in advance it was bait and worms are not my kind of food anyways. |
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[24758]
24758
From: Nevada, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: ...Gaza: only thing missing are the gas chambers?
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If Christ felt as strongly as he did about what activities were going on in the Temples in the Holy Land, I'm pretty sure he would have some thoughts on current day genocide in Gaza as do millions of people from many faiths as we speak. It's really not all about me, it's about the spiritual balance of the world for generations to come. For the record, if Religious war dialogue is not appropriate on "this" board, then where would it be? This unending story has been deeply tied to Religion for several thousand years now and is still nowhere close to resolution. I deeply respect your concern for animals and their place in creation and how they have standing in God's plan... ...but I also feel the same for "our" place in creation and what God might rightfully hope and expect of our time here. We all have an opportunity to make this a more loving and caring world. I'd rather work on that "here and now" rather than explain to God later that I was waiting for the right time and place to do so while still on Earth. I'm pretty sure we're all mostly on the same page, why do we still deny it? |
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