[ Charles : Bible : Religion ] [ Main Menu ]
24267
From: ryan, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Ensoulment and Abortion
URL: https://lostcoastoutpost.com/2023/mar/19/growing-old-ungracefully-ensoulment-and-abortion/
|
Ensoulment and Abortion As I understand it, the reason most anti-abortion activists take the stand they do is that they believe abortion is murder. And that is based on their notion of “ensoulment,” that life begins at conception when a bunch of rapidly-dividing pre-blastocyst cells (the zygote) is endowed with a soul, and is therefore a person. (After seven days, the excitement settles down into a more organized clump, the blastocyst.) The great majority of those supposedly soul-encrusted cells die without any human intervention: many fail to glom onto the wall of the uterus, while of those that do, about half are miscarried, without anyone being any the wiser. That is, most of the supposedly ensouled zygotes never make it to first base. But still, a few do, leading to the idea that to willfully abort a growing set of cells anytime after conception is tantamount to murder. (Incidentally, talking about a “moment of conception” is a misnomer, since fertilization takes about 24 hours.) Week-old human (ensouled?) blastocyst. (J. Conaghan, National Institutes of Health, public domain) If “ensoulment at conception” to justify a pro-life stance sounds a bit ad hoc — it’s because it is. It’s certainly not found in the Bible, which is understandable, given that two thousand and more years ago, pregnancy wasn’t understood as the result of fertilization of a female egg by a male spermatozoon. Aristotle, for instance, thought that the only role for the female in the process of creating new life was to provide a nest for the developing embryo — a man’s semen was all she needed. He, and presumably anyone influenced by Greek philosophy, certainly believed in ensoulment, except it happened later: 40 days after conception for male fetuses and 90 days after conception for female fetuses. If Christians are to fall back on the Bible to justify banning abortions, shouldn’t they be checking what it actually has to say about the start of life? Like, Genesis 2:7, which says it’s all about breath: “And the LORD God formed man from the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.” Breath equates with life. Not coincidentally, this followed the ancient Greek concept of pneuma (breath), which held that life only starts when breathing starts…nine months after conception. FWIW, wise old Saint Augustine, who had clearly thought this through 1700 years ago, wrote, “I have not been able to discover in the accepted books of Scripture anything at all certain about the origins of the soul.” Rather than falling back on religion (not as found in the Bible but as taught by the Catholic church hundreds of years later) shouldn’t we be facing the issue of abortion in the light of what we know now, not what was believed out of ignorance 2000 years ago? For instance: About 1 in 4 women in the US have had an abortion. Of those, 60% already have a child, half of whom have two or more children. 46% of those women who have abortions are single. Abortion isn’t generally seen as a form of birth control: for 58% of women getting an abortion, it’s their first one A sexually active woman who ends up with two children has to dodge nearly 30 pregnancies in her fertile lifetime if she wants to avoid having an abortion Women living below the poverty line account for half of all abortions in the US (the only country in the “first world” that doesn’t mandate paid family leave). Women want abortions for many reasons, beyond the more obvious ones of incest and rape, including: knowing they have mentally or physically compromised fetuses, economic hardship, failed or destructive relationships, health risks, and taking care of other children. Legislating against abortion won’t end it, based on pre-Roe vs. Wade history. It will only make it more dangerous. 61% of Americans say abortion should be legal, according to a 2022 Pew survey. Oh, and no one’s actually seen a soul, in case that makes any difference. Unfortunately, the people making the anti-abortion laws are almost entirely white, well-off men far removed from the plight of a desperate woman who is often poor and unmarried. They’re also ignorant, as when Texas governor Greg Abbott boasted that rape would be eliminated in his state, so abortions wouldn’t be necessary. Which reminded me of this: “If it’s a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down.” (Todd Akin, Missouri Republican and Senate candidate.) Legitimate rape? Sigh. |
Responses:
[24268] [24271] [24276] [24279] [24280] [24281] [24288] [24287] [24286] [24283] [24278] [24282] [24284] [24285] [24269]
24268
From: chaskuchar@stcharlesmo, [DNS_Address]
Subject: that is a sick article
| had to stop reading it to throw up. |
Responses:
[24271] [24276] [24279] [24280] [24281] [24288] [24287] [24286] [24283] [24278] [24282] [24284] [24285] [24269]
24271
From: georg, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: that is a sick article
|
I saw the header and said, "no thanks, not my idea of a good read" |
Responses:
[24276] [24279] [24280] [24281] [24288] [24287] [24286] [24283] [24278] [24282] [24284] [24285]
24276
From: Kat, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: that is a sick article
|
It made me sick as well. A Godless response and only helps ‘their’ thought process make ‘them’ feel better about abortion. A page right out of a liberal’s play book. “ if it FEELS GOOD DO IT.” Stand for nothing & fall for EVERYTHING. |
Responses:
[24279] [24280] [24281] [24288] [24287] [24286] [24283] [24278] [24282] [24284] [24285]
24279
From: ryan, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: that is a sick article
| what makes me sick is people pretending to be christians... |
24280
From: georg, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: that is a sick article
| can you name names? or is this just more hate speech? |
24281
From: ryan, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: that is a sick article
| well iirc, you're jewish, so not you... lol...i have previously named the pretenders ... |
24288
From: georg, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: that is a sick article
|
and, if you will recall, you did change the header per my request |
Responses:
None
24287
From: georg, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: that is a sick article
|
and, since I am not "up-to-date" on your postings, please oblige me by posting this list of names once again, the "pretenders" as you call them |
Responses:
None
24286
From: georg, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: that is a sick article
|
oh, so you think someone cannot be a follower of Jesus Christ because of an accident of birth? you really do not understand us do you, word cannot express how dim a light you seem to be |
Responses:
None
24283
From: chaskuchar@stcharlesmo, [DNS_Address]
Subject: please read my response to eve nt
| nt |
Responses:
None
24278
From: Eve, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: that is a sick article
|
Are photo ops while cuddling porn stars a page out of a republican's playbook? |
24282
From: chaskuchar@stcharlesmo, [DNS_Address]
Subject: hopefully folks change as they grow older
|
hopefully i have as well. we confess our sins and try to not do them again. we don't judge folks, that is God's job. |
24284
From: Eve, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: hopefully folks change as they grow older
|
Excuse me charles, I know who the Judge of souls is and it's not me and I never inferred I was.... I believe as a follower of Christ I am called not to be enchanted by words and ways of worldly ones who bear certain types of fruit for purposes of discernment as in testing the spirits as well as to not be led astray. You may toss that warning to the wind if you like but you might step in something that may seem charming but is a land mine in disguise. For myself personally I take heed of the warning as I feel it's best to do as my Lord taught. You also make a judgement when you cast your vote to the magical ballot box also so there's that and then just take a chance with what is imo a roulette wheel. I don't believe in it myself thus we differ vastly in our methods of personal judgements even though we agree maybe on the level it's not up to us to judge souls and it's not like we can do it if we wanted to because neither of us are the Most High are we? "You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thorn-bushes or figs from thistles? Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Therefore by their fruits you will know them." As for older and hoping one never knows when their time is up so placing hope in maybe changing with getting older is not guaranteed to any of us. |
Responses:
[24285]
24285
From: chaskuchar@stcharlesmo, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: hopefully folks change as they grow older
|
i understand, at least i think i do. i am trying to follow the teachings of christ. i thank you. and ryan. |
Responses:
None
24269
From: georg, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: that is a sick article
|
that is why I had him write the words "Malignant Indifference" on the header of this board |
Responses:
None
[ Charles : Bible : Religion ] [ Main Menu ]