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23435 |
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Date: December 03, 2021 at 12:56:46
From: shadow, [DNS_Address]
Subject: 10 Fatal Beliefs Held by Christian-Right Conservatives |
URL: https://www.benniewiley.com/2019/10/fatal-delusions-of-conservative-christians.html |
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I've never come upon this site or read any of his writing,
before, so don't know his position on other matters...but
this gentleman appears to be a Fundamentalist Christian
fellow who, interestingly, sees fairly clearly through the
dark miasms of neocon "values" they creatively project onto
their faith...and that they have literally nothing
whatsoever to do with Yeshua's teachings or God...
Pleasantly surprising to see, if I do say... ;)
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23449 |
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Date: December 16, 2021 at 15:26:35
From: Cinnamon in Oregon, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: 10 Fatal Beliefs Held by Christian-Right Conservatives |
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Thanks, Shadow, for sharing. I agree with lots of things in there.
But to clarify, a lot of these errors result when Christians fail to take into account the proper context of the Old Testament and that it was written for vastly different circumstances than the writings of the New Testament.
FIRST OF ALL
In the Old Testament, Jesus Christ had not yet come to fulfill the Law or yet died to atone for our misdeeds. And so...there were lots of rules.
The purpose? Galatians 3, 4, and 5 deal in-depth with this. Brief synopsis:
Galatians 3:19 Why, then, was the law given? It was given alongside the promise to show people their sins. But the law was designed to last only until the coming of the child who was promised. God gave his law through angels to Moses, who was the mediator between God and the people.
So, since the time of Jesus' death and resurrection, if an instruction is repeated in the New Testament, we should pay attention to it, but even still....we are NOT to obsess about keeping the Law.
Reason? We are forgiven in Christ for all our misdeeds, and - we CANNOT keep God's instructions by our own power or strength or resolution. WHAT WE ARE TO DO IS THIS: cultivate a daily friendship and ongoing conversation with the Lord whose Spirit has been placed inside of us who are forgiven and who does the empowering and changing of us FOR us as it says in Galatians 5:
16 So I say, let the Holy Spirit guide your lives. Then you won’t be doing what your sinful nature craves. 17 The sinful nature wants to do evil, which is just the opposite of what the Spirit wants. And the Spirit gives us desires that are the opposite of what the sinful nature desires. These two forces are constantly fighting each other, so you are not free to carry out your good intentions. 18 But when you are directed by the Spirit, you are not under obligation to the law of Moses.
We must place our trust in God's Spirit within us to transform each of us into the "new creations" He promised to turn us into.
SECOND OF ALL:
In the Old Testament, God had a special relationship with the physical nation of Israel. THEY were to set up a nation utilizing the Law. This was before Christ appeared on the scene and it was instructed to ISRAEL.
These instructions to set up a physical nation governed by the Law are NOT repeated in the New Testament. They are not for us living now. And right now, God is operating on an open system as described in Galatians 3:
26 For you are all children[m] of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 And all who have been united with Christ in baptism have put on Christ, like putting on new clothes.[n] 28 There is no longer Jew or Gentile,[o] slave or free, male and female. For you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And now that you belong to Christ, you are the true children[p] of Abraham. You are his heirs, and God’s promise to Abraham belongs to you.
Our instructions living in the times of the New Testament are simply different. If we try to apply the Old Testament instructions wrongly for ourselves, they simply will not be blessed.
Bible passages are from the NLB.
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Date: December 17, 2021 at 08:54:17
From: shadow, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: 10 Fatal Beliefs Held by Christian-Right Conservatives |
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Thank you, (((Cinnamon))) for all this input! I hope you
are recovering well and feeling better/stronger every
day... ;)
As I mentioned in a later post in this thread, I've come
to realize there are as many ways of living
Fundamentalist Christian faith as there are individuals
who identify with that as their spiritual truth... Yours
has always struck me as beautifully sovereign and
nonviolent... And I'm sure from all our shared years
here, you're aware that while Yeshua is One whose true
teachings I've always been drawn to and follow best I'm
able, I have never felt those teachings to be well
represented in the bible, at all...only fragments here
and there that, given the raw power of the Love that
shaped them, simply could not be stripped of their depths
of substance and meaning by tiny-minded Roman men seeking
control of their population...because those minds
couldn't begin to grasp what was in them... ;) I also
acknowledge that for those who DO find their authentic
spiritual truth to be alive within everything written
there, I would never think to challenge that -- EXCEPT
for wherever their embrace of those beliefs SEEMS TO
direct them toward imagining they have the right to
project that onto others in disrespectful, let alone
violent/freedom-denying ways... Then I find I have a few
things to say.
Having prefaced with that...and again with gratitude for
your taking the time to post the scriptures you did, as
perhaps those truly oriented in the way you are might
receive what you're intending to help them
understand!...my personal sense is that the
differentiations between old and new testament, and how
you see that differentiation directing the
perspectives/interpretations of Christians, is simply not
a factor for those who utilize Christian belief to
rationalize the types of violent views and actions that
Bennie Wiley targeted in his article... I wish it were!
lol
Those folks are very much like my birth family: They are
ruled by fear first, foremost and to the death. And they
see the return of Jesus as God's Son/Emissary as "soon
coming to save them from everything they fear," which
includes...well, anyone and anything they're afraid of.
As Wiley's article describes so well...
So...while it'd be so lovely to be wrong, I don't see
people like this feeling the slightest inclination toward
"looking deeper into scripture," i.e. differentiating
between how old and new testaments direct their angles of
belief and behavior toward truly honoring/serving the
Divine, or not... They're entirely happy with how they
interpret and project things, and no amount of anything,
especially Love-based, will budge that... ;(
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23450 |
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Date: December 16, 2021 at 15:52:10
From: Cinnamon in Oregon, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Another thing.... |
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Regarding "evolution", personally I don't see "macro" evolution actively happening. But I DO see "micro" evolution happening. Species change and adapt, but I don't really see species changing into other species. For today.
So....that leaves the issue of how long it took when the world was created. I've stopped engaging in these types of arguments of whether the world is 6,000 years old - or billions of years old. I've come to see them as ridiculous.
I believe the earth is BOTH 6,000 years old AND billions of years old - and there is no contradiction there.
Reason? Genesis says the earth was created in 6 days. I believe that literally.
BUT....how many things can an almighty, all-powerful God actually DO in 1 day? Is God limited? Can He do anything He wants to do on any given day? Of course He can!
So....God is perfectly capable of doing 1 billion years work of activity in 1 day. When an almighty, all-powerful God is at work - that is NOT A NORMAL DAY as we know it. It is a jam-packed day of much more than 24 hrs worth of stuff.
And so....since "Cinnamon" has never lived outside of our human linear, finite time, I pause. And tip my hat to God who can do anything He wants on any day. And stop having these kinds of arguments. Me-thinks it's all part of "walking humbly with your God". I simply have not lived in the realms that God has.
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Date: December 17, 2021 at 09:09:11
From: shadow, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: Another thing.... |
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"And so....since 'Cinnamon' has never lived outside of
our human linear, finite time, I pause. And tip my hat to
God who can do anything He wants on any day. And stop
having these kinds of arguments. Me-thinks it's all part
of 'walking humbly with your God'. I simply have not
lived in the realms that God has."
That is so beautifully put, Cinnamon...and although we
come from some notable differences in our respective
spiritual orientations, which is clear here, I can say
that I wholeheartedly resonate with your quote,
above...with the possible exception of referring to God
as "He," and that these are "arguments" that have One
Resolution or Ending, or another... ;)
I am also acutely aware that the very highest reaches of
my human mind, my spiritual intuition, anything
whatsoever sourced from my *human*ness cannot possibly
touch the outer peripheries of that which the Divine, in
Its Unconditional Love & Compassion, actually even IS --
let alone begin to grasp what it might be like to exist
within a context that is literally One With *each of us*
deep in our hearts & our instincts to Love, not only en
masse but PERSONALLY....... Knows inside-out each and
every aspect of our psyches, our histories, the fears
that run us before we bring them to consciousness and
healing, all that's transpiring within our hearts, minds
ad bodies in every moment...and designs paths for each of
us that will, unavoidably, comprise and deliver us Home
into the Oneness we are, and have never left, though for
all the world it feels as if we have... ;)
So while it may sound/seem quite different...I see this
as one small thing we do share, and I celebrate that!
Love to you...
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23437 |
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Date: December 03, 2021 at 14:34:34
From: chaskuchar@stcharlesmo, [DNS_Address]
Subject: there are none of those beliefs that match the catholic religion |
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those beliefs are a bunch of crap
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23459 |
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Date: December 24, 2021 at 18:48:43
From: Kat, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: there are none of those beliefs that match the catholic religion |
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AMEN Chaz. Have a Blessed Christ-mas !
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23440 |
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Date: December 03, 2021 at 15:09:44
From: shadow, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: there are none of those beliefs that match the catholic religion |
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Well...yes, charlie, I know they're bullshit; that would
be why I posted this, showing that even someone who
identifies as Christian can see how darkly and utterly
human, not remotely Divine, each of these "beliefs"
are...
...which are, oh my yes, enthusiastically and often
violently embraced by many, if not most, of those who
identify themselves as conservative right-wing
Christians. If you're going to try to claim you don't
know or see this, I can only suggest expanding your
reading parameters, as these very things he lists are
what right-wing Christians daily-tirade Battle Cries
consist of, that are published everywhere... "WE MUST
SAVE OUR CHRISTIAN NATION FROM THE IMMORAL GODLESS
NONWHIE LEFT-WING HEATHENS!!!" lolol
C'mon, charlie, your own voice has been heard amongst
them...most loudly, in agreement with Mr. Wiley's last
point -- regarding the hallucination that male human
beings have the right to interpret God's Will in ways
that actually legislate denying women their inherent
rights of reproductive sovereignty over their own
bodies...
See? You believe yourself so righteously aligned with
God's Truth, you don't even think twice
anymore...Catholic or not... Just like them... ;)
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Date: December 03, 2021 at 16:06:54
From: Redhart, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: there are none of those beliefs that match the catholic religion |
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Yes, Virginia..there is a Christian-left (and moderate).
There are even moderate and left Catholics. I know,
because we have a whole branch of catholic left and
moderates in our own family and we discuss such things.
Again, God (or Jesus) doesn't own a party card, and
these interpretations of gospel and belief do not belong
to any one political group or even one particular
denomination of Christians. Just like among the general
American party, there are differing beliefs among the
faithful, as well.
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23442 |
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Date: December 03, 2021 at 16:25:52
From: shadow, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: there are none of those beliefs that match the catholic religion |
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Are you saying this to Charlie or to me, Red? ;)
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Date: December 03, 2021 at 17:25:57
From: Redhart, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: there are none of those beliefs that match the catholic religion |
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just a general declaration of my experience and
beliefs. I suspect you might agree with some of it, and
suspect that charles and a few others will not. Don't
really know, of course, just throwing it out there for
myself, mostly.
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23445 |
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Date: December 04, 2021 at 06:04:04
From: shadow, [DNS_Address]
Subject: And reading this again this morning... |
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...I can also see how my having said "...that would be
why I posted this, showing that even someone who
identifies as Christian can see..." could prompt a
reminder that he's obviously not the only Christian who
sees what's going on there...
And I guess I'd also like to say that while I've been
given a beautiful lifelong education that there are as
many ways to live what's loosely referred to as "the
Christian faith" as there are individuals called to
it...and I own this is still a generalization *and that
there are exceptions*...consistent observation, also
lifelong, tells me that those of a certain "party" do
tend to gravitate toward interpretations of their faith
that appear to support...well, both casual and hardcore,
overt as well as subtle, versions of all those
angles/twists of belief the writer highlighted, and a few
other charmers I could add to the list...
They are always the most fear-based contexts of
interpretation that appear to them to support those
twists, no matter the disrespect and harm to others...
And I realize that it's my own personal history of having
been wailed on by the literal violence generated by that
terror, in so many ways, and my outrage that millions of
others have, as well, that kinda galvanizes me in that
way...
I'd be over the Moon to meet for the first time someone
who identifies as conservative/republican/evangelical
Christian who does not operate from that same mind/set of
judgement-/fear-based values at all, in whose presence
I'd feel at least genuine neutrality in response to
myself & my spiritual orientation... Actual open-hearted
welcome, I wouldn't even dare hope...lol...but just
neutrality! rather than the energy of righteous attack;
that'd be grand. If you even know of such people, Red,
that in itself would be encouraging to hear... ;)
Best to you...
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23444 |
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Date: December 03, 2021 at 18:13:41
From: shadow, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Ah okay, thanks for clarifying... ;) n/t(NT) |
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23436 |
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Date: December 03, 2021 at 14:25:40
From: Redhart, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: 10 Fatal Beliefs Held by Christian-Right Conservatives |
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Thank you!! How enormously refreshing!
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23438 |
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Date: December 03, 2021 at 14:35:24
From: chaskuchar@stcharlesmo, [DNS_Address]
Subject: what did your site check say? nt |
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Date: December 03, 2021 at 14:50:52
From: Redhart, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: what did your site check say? nt |
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This is a "non fact" board, concerned with faith and
spirituality and would not a fair comparison (neither do
I check for Dreams and Visions, spiritual or wowows).
apparently, you do not agree with the article. So be it.
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