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22058 |
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Date: March 23, 2020 at 10:06:25
From: shadow, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Biblical scripture reflecting Yeshua's Truth |
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Anyone w/any inclination toward studying what's
called "the bible" in Fundamentalist Christianity,
whether from the context of belief that it's the
literal "word of God" or toward their own perfect
spiritual process's discernment, takes from it what
they will, shaped by that same perfect
process...IMHO...
My personal understanding is that it has been so
perverted by men in positions of political/societal
power (particularly by Constantine & his minions at
Nicea, 3rd century) that very little remains that
carries the core truths of uncompromised Infinite
Love and compassion of Yeshua's true teachings...
FWIW, just feeling prompted here to post one of the
few verses that translates/honors that best, as I've
done occasionally over the years...offering the
humble suggestion that those identifying as
"Christian" reflect upon, side by side w/any of their
own projections and judgements they may be holding,
of others as "unworthy of support" via that perverse
"survival of the fittest" exclusivist mentality, or
any other human value judgement whatsoever, no matter
the rationale... The emphatic intended absence of
wiggle room there is the charge of Truth speaking,
IMHO... ;->
***
Matthew 25:40-45 King James Version (and, no; no
other translation shifts this meaning whatsoever...):
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them,
Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it
unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have
done it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand,
Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire,
prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungered, and ye gave me no meat: I
was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked,
and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye
visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord,
when saw we thee an hungered, or athirst, or a
stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did
not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say
unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the
least of these, ye did it not to me."
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Responses:
[22059] [22060] [22061] [22062] [22064] [22063] [22065] |
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22059 |
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Date: March 23, 2020 at 12:25:06
From: ryan, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: Biblical scripture reflecting Yeshua's Truth |
URL: https://selfdefinition.org/gurdjieff/maurice-nicoll-directory/Maurice-Nicoll-The-Mark-1953.pdf |
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from maurice nicoll's book, the Mark:
THE NAKED MAN
In psychological language, clothes, coverings, garments, de- note what the psychological man wears - that is, what truth he follows. So the naked man is man naked psychologically, with- out mental clothes. He is the man without a psychology, without any kind of truth. It is said in Revelation: 'Blessed is he that watcheth and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame' (Revelation xvi.15 A.V.).
The meaning is psychological, not physical. But what must be clothed? In one place it is said that the King was naked:
'When the Son of Man shall come in his glory, and all the angels with him, then shall he sit on the throne of his glory: and before him shall be gathered all the nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as the shepherd separateth the sheep from the goats: and he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: for I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.' (Matthew xxv.31-36 R.V.)
By the King, then, something in oneself is meant. Many assume they follow truth. But what in them does?
The question apparently is: Is the King in oneself clothed ? It seems the King is there already and it is a question of clothing him or not. This King in oneself is either naked or clothed. Also, people do good without knowing it - that is from goodness. Does not the parable go on to say:
'Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or athirst, and gave thee drink? And when saw we thee a stranger and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? And when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily, I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it unto one of these my brethren, even these least, ye did it unto me.' (Matthew xxv.37-40 R.V.)
We understand that the physical man is composed of visible flesh and blood and bones. We do not understand that the psychological man is composed of invisible thoughts and feelings and desires. What he thinks and desires determines the quality of the psychological man. But while the given physical body is ordered and can work harmoniously the psychological body is not given and is by no means ordered. A man may think one thing, feel another, and desire a third. From this point of view Man's task is to bring about order in the psychological body which is in disorder.
For this reason there has always existed a literature, under various guises, that does not refer to the physical but to the psychological man - as, for example, the fragments of teaching preserved in the Gospels and many other fragments.
But again we are going wrong because this psychological man is in some way already there, in us — only we have to clothe him. Shall we say, then, that he is either naked or wrongly clothed and that the task is to cover him from foot to head in the right garments. Recollect that the King apparently is there — either naked or clothed - and that in those cases where he is left naked the person has failed and in those cases where he is clothed the person has not failed.
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Responses:
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22060 |
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Date: March 24, 2020 at 09:01:13
From: shadow, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: Biblical scripture reflecting Yeshua's Truth |
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Hey ryan, thanks for sharing this Gurdjieff/Nicoll
symbolic interpretation/context... As I'm sure you
know, this could send me off in several directions of
comment...;->...but w/out having fully digested his
tomes, or having a tightly condensed nutshell around
what he sees as the bottom lines/essence of the
nature/process of human spiritual evolution, I'll
just say this.
As I said in the beginning of my post, everyone who
reads it, "...whether from the context of belief that
(the bible) is the literal 'word of God' or toward
their own perfect spiritual process's discernment,
takes from it what they will, shaped by that same
perfect process..."
I'll agree that what I've found of most value in that
book IS rendered symbolically, from the attempt to
preserve its value from dogmatic, controlling intent.
Your excerpt shows the symbolic interpretation of
what their (Gurdjieff/Nicoll) own perfect process/es
made of those words, and it's valuable indeed for
anyone resonating with it...
My understanding/interpretation is that it was meant
quite literally, and this comes from having really
taken in Lars Muhl's The Law of Light: The Aramaic
Mystery, in which he illustrates how deeply
multilayered Aramaic, Yeshua's native tongue, really
is...and how understanding it reveals the inherent
psychoemotional challenges of spiritual evolution &
what all's truly involved in integrating his
teachings of radical unconditional love and
compassion...taking that fire from its seed-form,
extant w/in everyone, and choosing to do the hard
work involved in making it where one lives from...
Kinda makes it beyond clear, at least to me... ;->
Perhaps at the end of all his density of words, and
fundamental differences in terms used (psychological
man vis-a-vis physical man), your teacher is
expressing virtually the same truths; you would know
better than I, obviously... ;->
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22061 |
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Date: March 24, 2020 at 10:31:14
From: ryan, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: Biblical scripture reflecting Yeshua's Truth |
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gurdjieff said there were 7 levels of depth and understanding to everything he wrote...i imagine there is a correlation to that going on in the bible...i just remembered that bit by nicoll when i read your post and tacked it on for general consideration...i know that i "know" very little...
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22062 |
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Date: March 24, 2020 at 11:16:05
From: shadow , [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: Biblical scripture reflecting Yeshua's Truth |
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My corellary/parallel truth to Gurdjieff saying
there's "7 levels of depth" to everything he wrote,
is that there exists a level of authentic truth/depth
of understanding *at literally every layer of
experiencing everything in life*...one which
resonates to the precise need/desire level *for* it,
waiting to minister to each person's needs when
they're ready to entertain/receive it...
And of that, I *know* only that which my own process
and journey has compelled me to integrate...which is
indeed very little... ;->
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22064 |
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Date: March 24, 2020 at 11:44:17
From: shadow, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: Biblical scripture reflecting Yeshua's Truth |
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Responses:
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22063 |
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Date: March 24, 2020 at 11:40:41
From: ryan, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: Biblical scripture reflecting Yeshua's Truth |
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how could it be different?
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Responses:
[22065] |
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22065 |
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Date: March 24, 2020 at 11:46:40
From: shadow, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: Biblical scripture reflecting Yeshua's Truth |
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Well...maybe this'd be different if I could
SEE...lololol... Comment underneath your post above,
meant for here... ;->
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