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8280
From: JTRIV, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Intellectual Dishonesty
URL: https://www.learning-mind.com/intellectual-dishonesty-signs/
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Akira posted this to one of the trolls on the Health board, but I think it deserves to be posted as a subject of it's own on Tech so I hope she doesn't mind. Here is the section of that web page on how to spot the signs of intellectual dishonesty. This really jumped out as it reads as if the author was referring specifically to certain of the posters here on Earthboppin. It is no great feat to see which of "the few" regular posters here regularly meet the definition of intellectual dishonesty. _______________________________________ Step 1: Spot the signs The first thing to consider when trying to beat it is to understand the signs that it is being used. Here are five common signs or techniques of someone being intellectually dishonest: Ignoring or avoiding the question. Employing double standards. Never admitting error or pretending things make sense when they don’t. Being vague in their answers, often to deceive others. Being dismissive of others’ arguments without giving a proper reason. _______________________________________ In fact I would say the whole of the source trolling that plagues this place meets the definition of intellectual dishonesty. How many times has an absolutely true story been posted but the source trolls exhibited all 5 signs of intellectual dishonesty and the absolutely true item was never even discussed? Cheers Jim |
Responses:
[8371] [8302] [8305] [8309] [8310] [8304] [8303] [8300] [8289] [8290] [8292] [8295] [8293] [8291] [8294] [8281]
8371
From: etc., [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: Intellectual Dishonesty
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Bringing this to the top for clarity as well… The post referred to was a consensus of my reading through dozens of articles sometime last week, none of which I saved but were easily found by topic. I did not snidely tell Akira to find them herself. I told her there were multiple articles and they were easily found. She could decide for herself. She decided to days later post about intellectual honesty and days after that bring it up here again this morning to point to me personally since my name did not come up in the comments of others. I was already going to post Step 2, generally today, from her source. I think it is good advice. And people should also be kind in pointing it out. I am trying. I hope others will too. People here have a tendency to gang up on others in groups. Sort of like junior high. Which is not very intellectual at all, in my opinion :( Step 2: Be intellectually honest Once you have spotted the signs, the next step is to be sure of your own intellectual honesty. As the old saying goes, ‘two wrongs don’t make a right’. Also, if the other person spots you being intellectually dishonest, they will be less likely to change. |
Responses:
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8302
From: akira, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: Intellectual Dishonesty
URL: http://www.earthboppin.net/talkshop/health2/messages/11357.html
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This was the post that initially got me thinking about honesty and fair play. There's an erroneous claim (I've just reposted sources showing that) made without a source. When a source was asked for to back it u, the poster refused, suggesting I find it myself. |
8305
From: etc., [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: Intellectual Dishonesty
|
The post referred to was a consensus of my reading through dozens of articles sometime last week, none of which I saved but were easily found by topic. I did not snidely tell Akira to find them herself. I told her there were multiple articles and they were easily found. She could decide for herself. She decided to days later post about intellectual honesty and days after that bring it up here again this morning to point to me personally since my name did not come up in the comments of others. I was already going to post Step 2, generally today, from her source. I think it is good advice. And people should also be kind in pointing it out. I am trying. I hope others will too. People here have a tendency to gang up on others in groups. Sort of like junior high. Which is not very intellectual at all, in my opinion :( Step 2: Be intellectually honest Once you have spotted the signs, the next step is to be sure of your own intellectual honesty. As the old saying goes, ‘two wrongs don’t make a right’. Also, if the other person spots you being intellectually dishonest, they will be less likely to change. |
8309
From: JTRIV, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: Intellectual Dishonesty
|
Hi etc., In our discussion you often seemed to confuse terms and not understand or completely ignore critical points in the discussion. This makes it even more important that sources be provided to support what is being claimed. Intellectual dishonesty isn't about just being dishonest as much as it is about being unwilling to have an honest discussion. It is about thinking you are correct and being unwilling to ever acknowledge the points being make, avoiding questions, being vague. Hell I kept telling you that you were mistaken and I was specific in what you were mistaken about. Yet when I assumed you were finally accepting what the science had to say you seized on my mistake as dishonesty and wanted to turn the conversation to Jim instead of the topic... even though I had never accused you of dishonesty in your many mistakes. You then told Akira that we had finished that discussion and moved on and when I corrected your error you talked about me being condescending but were still never willing to acknowledge your mistake or any of the points. It certainly felt like you were in the conversation just to disagree and had no interest in considering any points that were made. Cheers Jim |
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[8310]
8310
From: Nevada, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: Intellectual Dishonesty
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"It certainly felt like you were in the conversation just to disagree and had no interest in considering any points that were made." For the most part Jim, much of the dialogue on EB is a children's game of hide and seek more than an adult forum any more. People don't really want dialogue, but rather the "illusion" of dialogue. That won't end well if that's the goal. |
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8304
From: shadow, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: Intellectual Dishonesty
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Thanks for that, Akira, it clarified a lot for me... |
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8303
From: Dan, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: Intellectual Dishonesty
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That is such a bunch of self serving crap. Ect. is one of the most intellectually honest people here. You use the nuclear option of personal attacks when you can't force your views upon others or others challenge your views That is a trait that you have displayed ever since you began posting here. |
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8300
From: Dan, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Sounds just like you Jim LOL(NT)
| (NT) |
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8289
From: Nevada, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re:something about intellectual dishonesty is a real show stopper jim
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I think you and Akira deserve a round of applause if not an honest reply. |
8290
From: JTRIV, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: it definitely hit a nerve
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Hi Lee, It definitely hit a nerve. Posts are disappearing at a furious pace today. But all the credit goes to Akira. I just read her post and realized how powerful a message it was and how relevant it was to our current situation. Cheers Jim |
8292
From: Nevada, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: it definitely hit a nerve. interesting ryan won't respond directly
| ...but not too surprising. |
8295
From: JTRIV, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: trust me, he's replying
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A lot! LOL Cheers Jim |
Responses:
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8293
From: shadow, [DNS_Address]
Subject: OMG no...lol...it is NOT interesting...
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...that ryan "isn't responding directly"!!! It's not interesting, nor of the slightest significance whatsoever to anyone but you and those present within your eternal fever dream of one-upping your host... But of course, do you carry on as you must... ;) |
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8291
From: shadow, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Hell yeah, it did!
| That nerve they call the “funny bone”... ;) |
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[8294]
8294
From: Nevada, [DNS_Address]
Subject: why don't you address intellectual dishonesty Shadow?
| ...I know you respect the concept. |
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8281
From: Nevada, [DNS_Address]
Subject: you forgot Intellectual honesty Jim...
URL: https://www.learning-mind.com/intellectual-dishonesty-signs/
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"Intellectual Honesty Before exploring more about intellectual dishonesty, it is important to briefly mention its counterpart: intellectual honesty. This is what we are trying to achieve by challenging dishonesty. To reach it, someone needs to be open to all viewpoints and be willing to change their mind. If someone is genuinely intellectually honest, they are willing to change their opinion, even if it may not suit their goals. They care more about having high standards of truth than being ‘right’. They will be unbiased in their selection of sources to support their argument and they will adequately reference any sources they use. Why Is Intellectual Honesty Important? In a world full of misinformation and fake news, challenging intellectual dishonesty is of growing importance. On key issues such as the environment, education, and health, there is growing confusion around facts. If public opinion is based on incorrect or unchallenged facts, the policies governments make may also be compromised. We need to ensure we can stop the spread of potentially dangerous mistruths and untruths. How can we do that? By learning how to spot and stop intellectual dishonesty, we are better equipped to fight the problem." As a long time "liberal" on this board, it is my current observation and going back 4 or 5 years as well, is that most posting "conservatives" on EB meet the criteria of being intellectually honest than dishonest. Ironically, those that identify as "being" liberal, appear to be much more likely to fall into the dishonest catagory than honest. Liberal talk about protecting the world from a "fascist" threat is probably the biggest deception of all. Interesting times we live in. |
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