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26930 |
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Date: November 26, 2019 at 19:47:15
From: et, [DNS_Address]
Subject: The situation that some face is ... |
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... they do not ask for help...
... nor accept the help they need and get...
... and resent the one going out of their way to help.
and then there are them who willfully opt to do read something,
misunderstand it and then go blame the writer for what they read
instead of for what was written which they did not even
understand... hint: first validate that you get accordingly what was
written... then comment on it... now this is applicable to the
spiritual domain in which some have yet to learn how to handle
and recognize this that and the other spiritual influences... which
in some instanses can be rather simple... some talk or write about
appreciating and valuing good and doing what be right and
correct while some do something else... it's rather simple just look
at the words each employs and the statements each makes to
realize what such holds within. Next time you are about to speak
or write be mindful of how and what you opt to claim and how and
what such promotes... consider that there are the generic
alternatives the good the neutral and the one that is neither good
nor neutral... yes I opted to refer to the last alternative indirectly
and the other two alternatives directly... yes I could had opte to
refer to all three in a direct fashion or an indirect fashion... So
wonder why I opted to say good and neutral before the neither
neutral nor good... yes some do this but in the other direction
often without realizing what they do... and well they focus on what
they better not focus instead of what they better do focus... be
well do good
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Responses:
[26932] [26942] [26944] [26945] [26949] [26948] [26947] [26954] [26955] [26946] [26956] [26943] [26933] [26934] |
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26932 |
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Date: November 27, 2019 at 16:46:51
From: JimW, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: The situation that some face is ... |
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You could have said it all in you last 4 words.
Those words are good.
All the rest strikes me as your attempt to be
our counselor.
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Responses:
[26942] [26944] [26945] [26949] [26948] [26947] [26954] [26955] [26946] [26956] [26943] [26933] [26934] |
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26942 |
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Date: December 10, 2019 at 07:45:43
From: Awen, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Perhaps... |
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A few random thoughts:
I don't know what the larger context of this thread
is, or if it's just mulling over a few thoughts and
ideas...
But....
Quite often I write online in response to others as
a means of clarifying my own thoughts, too.
And likewise, most spiritual writing, along with
most writing of people just trying to figure things
out....DOES sound like that from a counselor.
Nothing wrong with that, I don't think.
The tone of most of us here tends to be in one form
or another us stating what we think we've learned
and why other people should think the same way.
Sometimes that voice is gentle, sometimes it
resonates, too often it's grating, sounds
condescending and a bit high horse presumptuous, or
it's an angry "how you MUST think" messianic
attitude (although the person most literally guilty
of that only makes very infrequent appearances
anymore).
To me just about all spiritual writing sounds like
an attempt to be a counselor or tell others how to
think. It sometimes is, sometimes isn't. Truth is
I suspect usually somewhere in the middle, except
for the truly arrogant or delusional ones.
That said, I usually don't venture into this forum
or pick up many spiritual texts, just because the
tone of "being told how to think" is something I
read too much into just about everything, and my
reaction against that perceived tone (whether or not
it's the actual intent) tends to be too strong to
pick up on the legitimate kernels of insight often
hidden within the more frustrating aspects of a
text.
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Responses:
[26944] [26945] [26949] [26948] [26947] [26954] [26955] [26946] [26956] [26943] |
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26944 |
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Date: December 10, 2019 at 11:13:31
From: et, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: Perhaps... |
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... the reactions one has more to do with the ideas one has about the
ideas they have than with what the other thinks and stated...
especially when one has not even validated and ensure that the
perceptions and ideas one has about the ideas they have
correspond accordingly to the ideas had by them...
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Responses:
[26945] [26949] [26948] [26947] [26954] [26955] [26946] [26956] |
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26945 |
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Date: December 10, 2019 at 13:04:56
From: Awen, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: Perhaps... |
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And yet all of us, when communicating with others,
also have a responsibility to try to understand our
own tone and how it will be understood by others.
(And I'm a prime example of how understanding that
does NOT mean effective application of that, as I'm
definitely NOT good at conveying things
without....extra baggage, heh).
If we fail to account for the perception of other
people at the place they are in life, then we fail
to convey our own messages and thoughts in the best
manner possible.
There is no such thing as two identical perceptions
of the same text. And no person will ever interpret
a text precisely as the author intends, because no
one's experience is the same.
One has to cater to the filter of others, just as
one must be aware of one's own filters. :-)
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Responses:
[26949] [26948] [26947] [26954] [26955] [26946] [26956] |
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26949 |
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Date: December 10, 2019 at 18:05:00
From: et, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: some believe in ... |
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... act accordingly and appropriately and abstain from doing some
stuff best not done... while some are for just cover it up and keep
doing it ... Some are for respect life and be nice some are for kill
them before they come out and become an inconvenience that
exposes what you done... and we could go on and on on this and
that and the other side...
I used to be quite engaging with some individual(s) especially
when they (or what controlled them) espoused certain ideologies
that shall we say are far from desirable but which they found
desirable... and they just insisted on pushing such stuff whenever
they got the chance.... while insisting it's the other who be
pushing such stuff even when the other has move on to better
stuff... and has corrected some stuff which they seem to never
recognize nor correct
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Responses:
None |
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26948 |
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Date: December 10, 2019 at 17:39:35
From: et, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: the tone of text is mostly what the reader puts into it... |
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...And indeed each has a responsibility to go the extra mile and do
get to understand our own tone and the tone of the other and
how such correspond with each other and how that can and may
and will tint what each understands from the statements stated
(and even not stated)... Note that I shifted from simply try to
understand but not accomplish such to actually do understand
and do accomplish such accordingly.
This can be as simple as incorporating a double loop
communicational interchange... where one validates if what one
understands does correspond to what the other sought to share
or as complicated as developing a whole new language that
enables each to clearly recognize consider realize this that and
the other stuff... irrespective of some opting to frame such using a
possessive ideology or an ideology that curtails such
possessiveness and promotes tenure and caring and helping...
and maybe even some other ideologies beliefs languages both
academic and natural and ______...
For example you stated "If we fail to account for the perception of
other..." instead of "when we succeed to account for the
perceptions of each..." note 'the subtle shift' some would
associate one to the pessimistic we will fail, and the other to the
optimistic we will succeed... and well there are other stances more
in accord to neither siding with one nor the other unless such
happens to happen to be the one who be correct and right and
depict what actually happens to happen as best and better be
realized...
Yes each one may be at a different place in life and may have more
of a challenge to successfully 'convey' or share or depict some
message and deal with certain thoughts in the best manner
possible... which they may not even imagine or conceive to be
possible... still maybe other been there done that and moved on
and are willing to help and share so that the passage be much
simpler for others... You stated "There is no such thing as two
identical perceptions of the same text"... and a few years ago I
would had agreed with you 100% scant since then I gave up that
belief and now hold that there is such thing as two identical
perceptions of the same text that for all practical purposes be
equivalent and identical copies of each other...
As to "...And no person will ever interpret a text precisely as the
author intends, because no one's experience is the same"... well
that is base on a certain belief which I used to believe but have
since managed to move beyond and now hold that some may
interpret a text precisely as the author intends as well as how
some other(s) interpret such a text and even in their own peculiar
nuanced fashion... of course to do so one has to do so and that
may require a bit of work and time and interchanges...
You stated "One has to cater to the filter of others, just as
one must be aware of one's own filters. :-)" sometimes that be the
case and sometimes that's not the case as the others have to
cater to the filters required to get the insight... which may even
have to be create or recreated ...
then there is the issue of why should I bother to seek and help
others get a message when the others will not bother to seek and
help themselves to get the message and will resent the help and
may even do anything but what's required to get it right... thus the
original post in this thread... to highlight this situation and maybe
induce some to reconsider if they welcome the contributions some
make or resent such contributions especially when such expose
the objective truth as the objective truth... and yes I am aware
some believe that there are no objective truths just subjective
truths... but that does not change that what be true be what be
true... I do hope you and others manage to make propper sense of
this and get something valuable and implement it for your
betterment and the betterment of those near and far from you...
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Responses:
None |
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26947 |
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Date: December 10, 2019 at 17:14:59
From: JimW, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: Awen, there is a history between us... |
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We have gone around and around for over 25 years.
Probably a waste of my time and energy.
I have no good words to say about him.
As an example, et believes that condoms
and safe sex is evil. That crap sets
me off and it is best I stay away from
all this.
He is all yours.
But I have always respected you.
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Responses:
[26954] [26955] |
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26954 |
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Date: December 11, 2019 at 06:10:38
From: Awen, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: Awen, there is a history between us... |
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I kind of wondered if the thread was an offshoot of
something else.
And I've had my say, I'm pretty neutral about either
side on this particular thread as it currently stands,
so I'll be bowing out now.
And thank you, I appreciate your saying that at the
end. It might mean more than you realize.
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Responses:
[26955] |
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26955 |
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Date: December 11, 2019 at 08:39:33
From: et, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: Awen, on wonder if the thread involves an offshoot |
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This was a specific thread about a specific topic which some
clearly have sought to highjack and shift into something else...
rather than deal with the topic presented here...
you said "..., I'm pretty neutral about either
side on this particular thread as it currently stands,
so I'll be bowing out now..." which implies that you are neutral
about siding with good or siding with the other side and taking a
stance for good... be that as that may be... just observe what each
put's forth and promotes... mindful of what seems to be because it
happens to be and because it seems to be or just seem to be
without being thus...
The situation that some face is ...
... they do not ask for help...
... nor accept the help they need and get...
... and resent the one going out of their way to help...
... instead of appreciating such a one and the help provided.
as to the allusions:
- then there are them who willfully opt to do read something,
misunderstand it and then go blame the writer for what they read
instead of for what was written which they did not even
understand...
well that's sort of an invitation to makes sure to read stuff and
understand such as intended by the writer and how the read
perceived such and what each contributed to the interaction
- hint: first validate that you get accordingly what was
written... then comment on it...
- now this is applicable to the spiritual domain in which some have
yet to learn how to handle and recognize this that and the other
spiritual influences...
learn to appropriately recognize consider handle such stuff
- in some instanses (one can recognize consider relalize what be
can be rather simple... some talk or write about appreciating and
valuing good and doing what be right and correct while some do
something else...
focus and seek to do what be right and correct
- it's rather simple just look at the words each employs and the
statements each makes to realize what such holds within.
the good will tend to focus on the good and the bad will thend to
focus on the bad that is each will tend to focus on whatever they
side with.
- Next time you are about to speak or write be mindful of how and
what you opt to claim and how and what such promotes...
consider that there are the generic alternatives:
1- the good
b- the neutral and
3- the one that is neither good nor neutral...
yes I opted to refer to the last alternative indirectly and the other
two alternatives directly... yes I could had opted to refer to all
three in a direct fashion, or an indirect fashion... So wonder why I
opted to say good and neutral before the neither neutral nor
good... yes some do this but in the other direction ... often without
realizing what they do... and well they focus on what they better
not focus instead of what they better do focus... be well do good
now in simple direct way consider that there are three generic
alternatives:
a- the good
2- the neutral and not bad and not good
c- the bad
note that not good and not bad just implicates a neutral state with
a slight bias towards one side... but many will push this neutral to
a side thus for them not good is bad instead of just something that
is not good but not necessarily get to be on the side of what be
bad...
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Responses:
None |
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26946 |
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Date: December 10, 2019 at 17:12:37
From: JimW, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: Awen, there is a history between us... |
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We have gone around and around for over 25 years.
Probably a waste of my time and energy.
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Responses:
[26956] |
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26956 |
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Date: December 12, 2019 at 08:24:34
From: Karin, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: Awen, there is a history between us... |
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Responses:
None |
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26943 |
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Date: December 10, 2019 at 08:15:50
From: Awen, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Adding.... |
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I'll add, that this:
"Quite often I write online in response to others as
a means of clarifying my own thoughts, too."
is basically what I'm doing now. Your post about
counselling just helped me to crystallize just what
it is I'm reacting badly to in some posts, and
seeing that, I think, is going to be helpful for me
in the long run.
Identifying a thought process is the first step in
redirecting it and taking some of the power away
from it and redirecting it more constructively.
So, thank you.
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Responses:
None |
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26933 |
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Date: November 28, 2019 at 09:38:57
From: et, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: what's the point of... |
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... claiming
"All the rest strikes me as your attempt to be our counselor"...
given that such
- has little to do with me or what was stated by me
- has much to do with what strikes you
- there be little worthwhile in what you stated-*
Note that word be associated to stuff, thus words do not mean
this or that or the other stuff though particular terms and words
do tend to have associated to positive or neutral or neither neutral
nor positive... What you make of what was written by me and read
by you be your business especially when such has more to do with
what you think/feel/realize to be thus than with the stuff depicted
by what was shared by me... Look I have noticed a pattern in what
you share... which I will characterize as a resentment towards
them who voice a better course of action ... which you seem to
recognize as them seeking to be an advisor and/or counsellor to
you rather than recognize as them just sharing something and
focusing on that something... I have also noticed how some will
often change the subject on the topic as a way to distract rather
than focus on such stuff... and well by stating "Not asking for
advice"... you are sort of stating asking for advice in the negative
while negating rather than the positive sense of that claim... but
at least in this case such be focused on something most tend to
associate with something good... especially when the advise be
related to doing something good...
this is the spiritual board and in theory should focus on inspiring
benefical stuff to better the existences of each and all... for awhile
I did seek to get you to shift from what you held and where held
into over to what best and better be held and by held by... it's a
rather simple shift akin to moving from pessimistic language to
optimistic language or even better to a language that recognizes
considers realizes what best and better be realized accordingly...
the glass in neither half.empty nor half-full the glass is always full
half-water half-air and some other stuff there... any a true correct
realist would recognize such a situation and act accordingly ...
Today many will celebrate thanksgiving and well consider this a
gift... that best and better be appropriately valued and
appreciated... though which I realize some will do something else
with it and well that's their business and should be kept their
business unless they want to share something beneficial and
appreciative of such stuff... By now I am somewhat quite
indifferent as to if some opt to embrace what be best and better
or opt for something worse ... to each what they want... personally
I prefer to embrace what be better and best and realizing what
best and better be realized accordingly...
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Responses:
[26934] |
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26934 |
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Date: November 29, 2019 at 10:44:27
From: et, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: a rationalization of a rationalization... |
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Bopp noticed you deleted some posts and am wondering if you
opted to delete just one and that took the other or if you opted to
delete both... and deleted both...
From a certain abstract perspective consider relevant to do be
mindful how rationalization and/or/with mischaracterization... or
characterizations influence what we and others see sense
perceive...
One of the key tenants that has underlay many conversations had
by me here and elsewhere involves pointing at the forms and
terminology used... but unfortunately instead of that leading to
dialogue or instead of each opting to use that to move towards
dialogues many seem to prefer to explain and further rationalize
why they claimed what they claimed in the form they used (or the
form that used them to spread such form and ideas)... this and
that and the other ideologies can show up in a simple statement
like " I have a hunch..." or "I have a sense..." or "that strikes me
as... " ... note the agency of these three statements... the first to
involves an ---I hold whatever...--- while the third involves more a
---whatever hits me---... so which of these do we (you me other)
want to promote? which of these does each promote? here I have
mentioned both of them, but I could had focused on just one, and
opted for such to be ______ which corresponds with what someone
or somebody or anyone could and would opt to when such opts
for what be best and better... ideally also aligned with what such
thinks/feels/realizes to be better and best or best and better than
better. Yes sometimes there are even additional alternatives to
entertain...
Some will say that spiritual involves anything nonmaterial but that
sort of implicates that anything material be not spiritual and well
from where I stand there can be spiritual matters or matter that be
spiritual... and the idea that spiritual involves anything nonmaterial
may involve a nonmaterial ideology that seeks to negate rather
than recognize that the material can be spiritual and none-spiritual
and even anti-spiritual or anti-material ... I was going to repost an
edited variant to the post shared by me that was deleted ... though
am thinking that maybe best to just leave this at what I have stated
here thus far... and just allude to the general topic that there can
be quite a difference between what one perceives to be thus and
what actually happens to be thus and what actually best and
better be...
Just remember that I was curious to know if you opted to delete
both or just one and that that took the other...
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Responses:
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