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26823 |
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Date: August 16, 2019 at 09:58:54
From: Sunshine, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Good Article |
URL: https://gurumag.com/becoming-god-inside-moojis-portugal.../ |
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Long, but well worth the read.
I always had a gut feeling something just nor right with this guy: Just another cult leader.
( I hope link works - this is first time I have tried to show a link ).
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Responses:
[26826] [26827] [26828] [26829] [26830] [26832] [26835] [26838] [26831] [26833] [26834] [26836] [26837] [26839] [26824] [26825] |
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26826 |
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Date: August 16, 2019 at 18:25:52
From: Akira, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: Good Article |
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The first video is really disturbing, that's as far as I went. Never heard of the
guy, but I imagine such power becomes intoxicating. The author seems to
be quite experienced researching cults. How people give their power away
to such people is baffling, but then he's so much like Jesus, right? That
explains it, I guess.
I recently found out that K. Pattabhi Jois, teacher who introduced Ashtanga
yoga to the world had been accused in recent years by several women of
sexually abusing them several decades earlier. Others (men) in that close
knit community now claim they regret remaining quiet for years, decades,
while being aware of his behavior.
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Responses:
[26827] [26828] [26829] [26830] [26832] [26835] [26838] [26831] [26833] [26834] [26836] [26837] [26839] |
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26827 |
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Date: August 17, 2019 at 12:49:04
From: shadow, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Akira & Sunshine |
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Akira, you say: "How people give their power away
to such people is baffling, but then he's so much
like Jesus, right? That explains it, I guess."
Oookay, obviously some clarification's required here
on my post to you, Sunshine. Excessive verbosity
warning posted right up front as well. My inner
editor's been broken for quite some time. (Really?
lol)
I'm pretty passionate around both sides of the whole
phenomenon spoken of, here.
On the one hand...if I could somehow plug both of you
into what all I've been through, counseled women
through and heard the stories of so many others
who've been either physically or energetically raped
and abused by males acting out both conscious and
unconscious rage, I'm hoping, at least, you'd get a
true sense of how seriously I take this, when it
happens. Unfortunately that's not possible.
My experience came about specifically because I was
standing in my own power, calling BS on someone's
style of running unconscious rage energy & its need
to dominate & manipulate women, in the guise of
offering spiritual teaching. Had him nailed to the
wall on these issues in ways he couldn't squirm out
of and, as we were in the wilderness, his response to
that confrontation was to brutalize me & leave me
unconscious. So I'm way beyond clear on how
completely unconscious borderline-violent energy can
become compartmentalized out of sight...even to
strong empathic awareness...until, well, it isn't
either anymore. (The idea that this can play out from
the psyche of a spiritual teacher is not lost to me;
it does happen, though I would not agree w/how often,
as portrayed by the article's writer.) And if this
happened to me when I was perhaps the least
vulnerable I'd been in my whole life, thus far, as it
did...knowing this happens ever, at all, to women,
AND men, within scenarios where they're most
vulnerable within their searches for spiritual truth
and healing...well. There's just no words for that
outrage.
On the other hand: I have personal knowledge of two
instances, and know of two others through dear
friends who've spent time in ashrams/retreat centers,
led by several different gurus/teachers in both the
U.S. and elsewhere, in which this same dynamic rolled
out flipwise. Within the emotional/egoic intensities
that go on in powerful self-reflection processes that
are truly well-facilitated, some going through them
become so triggered by their own unconscious reactive
stuff (including rage) coming up, often for the first
time and out of the blue, that they simply can't own
those energies as their own...which they then project
out onto the teacher by accusing them of all kinds of
outrages. Sometimes going to great pains to do so as
convincingly as possible. This is a real thing that
does happen. Usually the teacher is able to
facilitate deeper clarity and insight into what their
process is bringing to light, within them, at earlier
emergings of this...but not always...
Unless someone's engaged and navigated a process like
this, themselves, it's hard to grok what actually
comprises the spiritual-growth mirrorings, satsang
experiences, the actual contextual substance of
teachings offered one-on-one. Painting all guru-
teacher/-student relationships as invalid, as being
likely-as-not to involve an outside-right-action
manipulation or surrender of one's power/sovereignty
to a dominative abuser, is simply inaccurate. Many,
many of these relationships are truly beautiful,
respectful and healing phenomena...and I've seen the
veracity, dignity and truth of all that hard work, on
the part of three of these wonderful teachers,
subjected to venomous false-accusation smear
campaigns by students going through what I
described...at the same level I saw applauded in the
article Sunshine posted... And while their work
continues, the stain of that projection never fully
dissipates in the minds of others...
So! By all I said in the first part of this, am I
defending abusers? By all I said afterward, am I
dissing the credibility of those claiming abuse?
Please, somebody realize I'm not doing
either...lol...
And Sunshine: If it felt out of line and
disrespectful to you, for me to have noted in my post
the frustration you've often expressed over some time
now, in certain spiritual teachings/channeled
material you've read here, not offering you or
materializing as what you've been looking for...and
then wondering if perhaps that might've been involved
in snap-judging the teacher who's the focus of this
story, getting behind it as you did...I acknowledge
that wasn't best of me, and I sincerely apologize...
;(
I will always stand at the back of...and at each side
of, for that matter...anyone who's experienced any
kind of abuse from anyone, to offer whatever support
is appropriate and possible. And....I'll always offer
the exact same to anyone falsely accused of it. Where
does that put me then? ;-O
In a brand-new space I'm just getting my bearings
within and that's really REALLY hard to get words
around...lol...but I'm getting there... ;->
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Responses:
[26828] [26829] [26830] [26832] [26835] [26838] [26831] [26833] [26834] [26836] [26837] [26839] |
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26828 |
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Date: August 17, 2019 at 14:27:59
From: Akira, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: Akira & Sunshine |
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"Painting all guru-
teacher/-student relationships as invalid, as being
likely-as-not to involve an outside-right-action
manipulation or surrender of one's power/sovereignty
to a dominative abuser, is simply inaccurate."
I didn't say anything about all guru/teacher -student relationships.
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Responses:
[26829] [26830] [26832] [26835] [26838] [26831] [26833] [26834] [26836] [26837] [26839] |
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26829 |
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Date: August 17, 2019 at 15:08:59
From: shadow, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: Akira & Sunshine |
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Okay... I said: "Painting all guru-
teacher/-student relationships as invalid, as being
likely-as-not to involve an outside-right-action
manipulation or surrender of one's power/sovereignty
to a dominative abuser, is simply inaccurate."
Poor wording there, my use of "all" and
"invalid"...kinda bungled that phrase, as its focus
was more toward on "more likely than not," but
otherwise it conveys my impression. Your saying,
"Never heard of the guy, but I imagine such power
becomes intoxicating," and "How people give their
power away to such people is baffling, but then he's
so much like Jesus, right? That explains it, I
guess," translating as that broad-brush
generalization I described, doesn't strike as that
far offtrack...
But my apologies if I was mistaken.
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Responses:
[26830] [26832] [26835] [26838] [26831] [26833] [26834] [26836] [26837] [26839] |
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26830 |
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Date: August 17, 2019 at 15:31:38
From: Akira, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: Akira & Sunshine |
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" translating as that broad-brush
generalization ..."
No, that's what his followers have said. I read the article.
I'm not interested in arguing with you about it.
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Responses:
[26832] [26835] [26838] [26831] [26833] [26834] [26836] [26837] [26839] |
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26832 |
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Date: August 17, 2019 at 15:44:00
From: shadow, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: Akira & Sunshine |
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Not interested in "arguing" about it with you either,
Akira! ;) I personally know some of his followers, two
of whom found truly safe refuge w/him after actual
abuse elsewhere...so...? Your having read the article
doesn't hold any water one way or the other...nor does
my sharing this testimonial, when it comes down to it,
eh? ;)
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Responses:
[26835] [26838] |
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26835 |
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Date: August 17, 2019 at 16:28:06
From: Akira, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: Akira & Sunshine |
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It's odd that take such a defensive stance towards this guy, imploring us to
see this man from your perspective, derived second hand from your friends,
while being completely disinterested in the perspective of other disciples
written about, video taped and quoted in the article. You have no interest in
his potential victims, no empathy or apparent curiosity. Wonder why.
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Responses:
[26838] |
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26838 |
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Date: August 17, 2019 at 16:44:16
From: shadow, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: Akira & Sunshine |
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Patently untrue, Akira...lol...and if you're so blind
as to read/interpret everything I've expressed here,
and come to that conclusion, it's probably an
exercise in futility for me to say anything more...
"No interest in his potential victims, no empathy nor
apparent curiosity..."...??? This, as well as your
"wondering why" shows me your own radar has no
capacity for registering anything I've shared or
expressed of my heart, around these issues, that I
might share or express...so...
...passing on anything further here, except to say:
Yes, sure, you bet, Akira, just as you say, just as
you need to see it... ;D
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26831 |
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Date: August 17, 2019 at 15:39:59
From: Akira, [DNS_Address]
Subject: question? |
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Are you aware of any female spiritual teachers who allow or encourage their
disciples to kiss their feet? Just curious.
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Responses:
[26833] [26834] [26836] [26837] [26839] |
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26833 |
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Date: August 17, 2019 at 15:56:31
From: shadow, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: question? |
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Um...no, not a one...
Closest remote connection I can fathom to such a
thing...and it's not the same energy, at all...comes
from when I engaged Initiation into a
priestess-/Divine-Feminine-oriented self-realization
process, in which every woman washed the feet of
another, honoring every step and every breath that
woman had taken in this life that brought her to this
moment, symbolically clearing the human-/emotional
weight of suffering they'd undergone thus far and
opening the way for a new journey of conscious,
loving self-awareness and service, from a more whole
and sovereign space...
There was no differentiation whatsoever between
Initiates, so to speak, and those guiding and
facilitating this process.
I have no way of knowing if, or to what degree, this
gesture you speak of, of certain female spiritual
teachers asking that their feet be kissed by their
students, is similarly one of fully-reciprocal
honoring, as per the above, or one sourced within
hierarchical contexts -- which, to me, has no place
whatsoever in anything claiming to be genuine
spiritual teaching........so, no clue whether this is
helpful or not...
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Responses:
[26834] [26836] [26837] [26839] |
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26834 |
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Date: August 17, 2019 at 16:05:17
From: Akira, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: question? |
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But if you read the article and watched the videos, you'd seem him allowing
his disciples to kiss his feet. In the 21st century. Did you even read the
article?
The only kind of spiritual teacher who interests me is someone who strives
to empower others. Someone who is wise and mature enough to discourage
the paternalistic, ego gratifying act of having their feet kissed by their
students. Surely there are other ways of expressing gratitude.
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Responses:
[26836] [26837] [26839] |
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26836 |
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Date: August 17, 2019 at 16:35:56
From: shadow, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: question? |
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But...I thought you weren't into "arguing about it,"
Akira? Your investiture into seeing this a certain
way is as clear as anything I'm expressing... ;)
lol...
There's something to be said here...and perhaps
emphatically so...about how we can all find
substantiation for, validation of, ANYthing we're
experiencing and perceiving to be *the truth* -- from
those who feel they're also experiencing it within
the same contextual framework we are...
That's not all I have to say about this, by a
longshot...but will have to defer it to when I can
address it fully and properly...
Best to Everyone...
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Responses:
[26837] [26839] |
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26837 |
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Date: August 17, 2019 at 16:38:31
From: Akira, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: question? |
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I changed my mind.
But wow, you suddenly have nothing to say?
Sweet dreams.
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Responses:
[26839] |
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26839 |
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Date: August 17, 2019 at 16:45:48
From: shadow, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: question? |
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Yeah, Akira: Suddenly, and all for reasons that seem
clearly off your radar & outside your purview, I have
nothing more to say. ;)
Sweet dreams to you, too... ;)
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26824 |
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Date: August 16, 2019 at 15:26:59
From: shadow, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: Good Article |
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Sunshine, FWIW...just because someone writes an article making all
sorts of scandalous claims about someone doesn’t mean it’s worthy
of anyone blindly getting behind them... Have you personally
experienced Mooji’s teachings/energies, or been in retreat w/him?
Several dear friends of mine have for many years, and this is not an
accurate portrayal at all...in fact, pretty out there on the tabloid front...
I’m sorry, I don’t mean to come across so harshly...but if I were to ask
if maybe you’re feeling a little frustrated within your personal journey,
& whether that might have something to do with an inclination to
snap-judge a bit here? ;) Please forgive if I’m mistaken, just a
thought... Will find a link to his site so you can maybe get a different
context/perspective...?
And hey, if you find you still resonate w/that article, by all means, as
you please... ;)
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Responses:
[26825] |
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26825 |
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Date: August 16, 2019 at 15:38:12
From: shadow, [DNS_Address]
Subject: About Mooji |
URL: https://mooji.org/en/about/mooji |
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This is his About page on his site...which of course I
realize will do nothing to shift your perspective of
him, if your own perfect path of soulgrowth requires
you to see him as projected by the being who wrote that
article... ;)
Just had to pipe up here, as a few friends of mine whom
I consider spiritual peers & role models consider him
their lifelong teacher...& while he is not mine, per
se, I can certainly feel the dignity & heart of his
character...which would not have room for any kind of
unconsciously operative darkside, like that... ;)
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