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25623 |
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Date: February 08, 2018 at 10:15:02
From: ryan, [DNS_Address]
Subject: the external world and the internal world |
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this commentary by nicoll was a refreshing slap in the face for me...eye-opening and extremely thought provoking...
Amwell, 18.6.49
THE EXTERNAL WORLD AND THE INTERNAL WORLD
People all think the world is outside them. But the world is inside you. The world is how you take it. Up to your present age, how have you taken the world ? People cannot distinguish between the external world and the internal world. You have two worlds that you experience —one is the external world given by your senses, and the other is the internal world which is how you take this external world. In philosophy the external world is called the phenomenal world, the world of phenomena—that is, of appearances. The phenomenal world is what the senses manifest to you, but the way you take the phenomenal world of appearances belongs to your internal world. Now all this Work is about how you take this external phenomenal world internally in your own world. Take a trivial example. The other day in the papers it was said that three large crabs escaped from an oyster bar in the neighbourhood of Curzon Street. They rushed into the road, and one was run over by a motor car, one went down a drain, and the third was captured by the proprietor who got his finger bitten. Suppose you are very identified with the phenomenal world: "How terrible", you will say, "that this poor, dear crab was crushed to death by a motor car." Say you burst into tears, thinking of the poor crab. If you did you are really a silly ass. Why? Because you are identified with the world of appearances. I remember O. once speaking in his early days about some people who were climbing Mont Blanc and they all fell down and were killed. Several people asked him why this happened. He said: "I didn't know them and I do not see why you should waste so much energy in a negative form about these unknown people." He added: "At this moment I believe there are millions of Chinese dying from plague and famine."
Now suppose you are going to identify with everything that happens in your small phenomenal or external world and are getting depressed by it at every moment—are you then being driven by external life, by the phenomenal world, the world of events as it appears through your senses? In that case, you have no development of the internal world. You are a function of life, of the phenomenal, external world. So you have not developed your inner world.
Now what does this development of the inner world mean? It means the First Conscious Shock. Do you understand that I have been feeling very ill recently thinking about that poor crab in Curzon Street that was squashed ? Now in that case am I merely a function of external impressions ? Is my machine run by the phenomenal, external world or have I a world developed inside not dependent entirely on the external phenomenal world? All this is indicated by the reception of impressions of the external world and the way you receive them. Do you understand that I need not feel so upset about this unknown crab in Curzon Street? Has it anything to do with me ? Or am I going to identify myself with this unfortunate mollusc and feel depressed because of its fate ? Now if your machine be driven by the external, phenomenal world you are mechanical, but when you begin to select your impressions and only respond to a few of them your internal world begins to grow and you begin to become an individual distinct from life and its events. This is what is meant by psycho-transformism. But if you are driven by life, by everything that happens in life, depressed by reading the papers, depressed or angry with everything that happens externally in the phenomenal world, you are a machine.
Now the Work says that you can take external impressions coming from the external phenomenal world mechanically or consciously. It also says that unless you begin to take them consciously, you remain a machine driven by life. Every time a typical event comes along to you from the external world you are identified with it and become subject to it, a slave to it. Once you begin to separate from an external impression, if it is unpleasant, you begin to grow in your internal world. This is the first idea of psycho-transformism.
When the events of life are taken mechanically, then there arise in you what are called "problems"—that is, the usual ones. But this happens to all men and women at every moment. If you take in life more consciously you will not have so many "problems". This can only be possible if you do not take life and its tricks mechanically. What you have to do with a "problem" is to discard it, not identify with it. Then you have a different inner world from the external world.
But you have to learn not to take the phenomenal world, the world coming in from the senses, in the way you mechanically take it. You have to catch it before it gets you down—i.e. before you identify. Life will give you nothing, save uneasiness and disappointment. The Work, coming between you and life, can give you everything.The first idea of Self-Remembering is to bring the Work and what it teaches in between life and your mechanical reactions to it. Put the Work between yourself and life. Then you will take impressions quite differently. Just as we live in a pain-factory, so do we have pain-psychologies. That is why we have to practise psycho-transformism.
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[25635] [25624] |
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25635 |
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Date: February 10, 2018 at 00:27:05
From: kay.so.or, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: the external world and the internal world |
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trying to form some thoughts here with a bit of a headache so excuse if I am bobbly....but have you studied the Course in Miracles? I only needed the very first of it, the rest of the books were just so much talk talk talk....but the first teaches you to look around at everything in your room you are in at the moment and realize/understand that everything there only has the 'meaning' that you give to it. Then the lessons go on to expand to many different things, even to people. That helped me to be able to grasp that concept, that nothing is permanent, that indeed, we can't take 'it' with us, and to be able to 'let go'.
I also realize I am very much an 'energy' person and I do love to have 'things' and 'pictures' of people who have been in my life that are here or gone and I have treasured and taken care of those things as a remembrance and also kind of like 'honoring the dead'.
And I am ok with that in myself, knowing that is a part of 'who' I am at the moment. I also know I can change and when I am ready to 'let go', I can do that also which I am doing massively right now with this 'move' we are making and it feels good!.....I am excited about the next step in my life, whatever that is, and where ever it is and 'releasing' is part of it.
Getting to know one's self, is accepting the 'whole' of what you are and what you do and being ok with it. There do come times for many in which they are ready to change for a myriad of reasons and step out into that void and then discover more layers of 'who' they are.
I don't like the analogy of 'the external world and the internal world'....because it denotes a separation.
ie: when I was growing up, I felt like a stranger in a strange land with strangers, even my brother said living with me was like living with a stranger. I couldn't relate and cut my own emotions off, why, I don't know? I was not abused, nice parents, food, clothes, housing, etc but I felt 'apart'. As a result it made me wonder finally why I couldn't even get excited if someone gave me a present, or something fun happened, I was reserved and just 'there'. I could hardly wait to grow up and have a life. ...
I am not sure if this is why I can't remember most of my childhood, and even when my kids were growing up, maybe I have some kind of 'challenge' that no one recognized or diagnosed like they do these days. Or maybe I am a 'walk-in'....lol...
My 'waking up' to the 'feelings/emotions' etc happened after I divorced and was thrust out into the world...then with one thing after another, I began to 'feel/emote' and could actually relate to others and what they were going through, to react with 'caring' to others and genuinely 'feel' that. Now, as an elder, I admit my emotions are way stronger and too close to the surface at times, but again I accept that too as I would rather 'feel' then be feeling-less.
My point being I learned compassion through my experiences, which made me want to help others in anyway I could. The sickness that changed my planned future in 1992 also taught me what it is like to live with pain and not the ability to do what you want to do, so there again being able to extend that 'caring' to others and love. I accept that lesson I needed to learn in this lifetime. I accept that perhaps everyone here is here to learn 'some lesson'.
Being able to find and keep your own 'peace' or your 'wa' for yourself is critical especially in this time which is so different being that through our technology and communication abilities, we are constantly informed of this and that and who and where and disasters on all levels which can just bombard the senses, creating a fight or flight syndrome and lots of fear too. Only those who have deliberately gone off the grid, and away from most human contact can avoid all of that.
I would not like to be like some 'say' the 'grey's are and they have no emotions and have come to somehow see what it is like or ????....Our interaction with the 'whole' world is not only physical, nor emotional but also energetic and spiritual. I guess only the creator
has all the answers to that one which we wonder about and want to understand so badly.....that huge question of 'why are we here'?
The way I took the stories about the crabs....yeah for the one who escaped! Karma for the one who was bit, and 'right on' for the one who ran even though getting crushed by a car because that crab took charge of its own destiny and preferred that to being boiled alive.
I took courses in Psychology in college and learned of course about the conscious, the sub-conscious/etc and
about the stages that mankind 'can' go through, and about the many many ways each are affected/programmed/and changed due to the total sum of our learning. Good classes for everyone to take. I also took a Personal and Social Adjustment class that was absolutely so meaningful to me as it made me open up, it helped me to see things in myself that I had no clue were there and it changed my world. I didn't know until I had that class that I wasn't 'real'. I was just playing along doing what I thought I was supposed to be like with myself and with everyone. Then when years later I had the next awakening about 'chakras', energies, past lives, etc....that just took me on another path of my own 'awakening'.
Until a person has those moments, those keys come to them that unlock those doors, they remain in a 'set' program, kind of like in The Matrix huh?
well I have babbled enough....thanks for listening/reading as it were...:-)k
**************
My Puzzle
These familiar things
I surround me with,
A picture, a hanging, a chair.
parts of you, and you, and me.
They tell my story,
pieces of my puzzle.
Where do I fit now, I wonder,
is the puzzle the same?
The pieces feel......
strange, somehow as if
they're not valid anymore.
I'm changing - what a revelation,
I've done it before,
......so why wonder.......
But where will it lead too -
when will it end,
What if it never does..
would I want it too?
So I sit and ask myself
silly questions - like this.
Knowing it doesn't really
matter anyway.
I think I'll just savor the moment
watching,waiting
....and wondering...
Kay©1998
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25624 |
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Date: February 08, 2018 at 16:56:57
From: et, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: the external world and the internal world |
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Some individuals can and do distinguish between the
external world and internal worlds... thus the claims that
"People cannot distinguish between the external world and
the internal world" be not true, nor correct, though some will
claim they think/feel/realize it be right to think such stuff
In a way there exists 'the external world' (what actually
happens to be) and then there be the individuals senses and
perceptions done of such domain by individual(s)... what you
see sense perceive as given by your senses, has already
gone through a transpositional processes... Yes there also
exists the internal world (what you think/feel/realize to be real)
... which is more to do with what you think/feel/realize to be,
how you take the existential worlds depends quite a bit on
other stuff. Heck for me there is a world that's external and
internal and in-between and beyond spaces and times.
I find rather curious how some define the external world as
the phenomenal world, the world of phenomena—that is, of
appearances rather than of actual stuff that one may sense
and perceive or not... Of course there are a few other stuff
going on here related to matters and issues that matter.
what the senses manifest to you is not the phenomenal
world rather it is the transposionional reactions taking place
given the interactions between phenomena and individual...
as to what you associate and how you take that be a whole
different issue... sort of like when writer employs a word and
reader associate a meaning to said word ... 'the word' in and
of itself does not contain the meaning each associated to the
term... one has to aquire such distinctiveness...
The thing is that there are shared meaningful terminology and
forms which are said to mean something when in actuality is
a misrepresentation of what takes place... in the best of
cases... may copy of meaning and your copy of meaning in a
conversation will involve the same meanings and ideally
others will also share and realize what said meaning
involves... of course in more covert encodement and
decoding of messages there are multiple levels of meaning...
in some cases with the explicit intent to guide some and
misguide some and each thinking feeling realizing they got
it...
as to the example you shared in the text... I noticed the
subtle bent it had and well it did not involve getting exited
and happy about everything that happens :-) and there are all
sort of other tidbits slants that have little to do with joy and
happiness... In a way I notice how you used an example
involving feeling very ill recently thinking about that poor
crab in Curzon Street ... instead of elated by the one that got
away or the one that defended itself and maybe even got
slung into the ocean after 'bitting' a finger...
In the case of the example used there are extra layers of
forms and terminology being used... did the car crush the
crab or the crab ran into the ewal of the car ...
I find it amazing the number of times the word depressed and
angry are used especially when juxtaposed with th e number
of times the words happy and at peace are not mentioned ...
If I where to analyze the text I would say the individual
wanted and created such not so happy ideologies that
induced them not to feel nice...
as to " Every time a typical event comes along to you from
the external world you are identified with it and become
subject to it, a slave to it. Once you begin to separate from an
external impression, if it is unpleasant, you begin to grow in
your internal world. This is the first idea of psycho-
transformism" well I hold a different assessment of that ...
that involves unifying with it and with other stuff in a rather
pleasant and enriching fashion...
It may well be due to the practices of phantom renditions that
transpose some statements into a better terminology... so for
example instead of problems and solutions I think feel realize
and consider situations and possibilities and actions to do
and not do ...
As to the characterization of a situation as a situation to
handle or as a "problem" to discard or to solve or as an
opportunity to pursue via appropriate identifications with it
and with ti and with other stuff... well there you likely realize
that I have a different inner world from the external world and
from the iner world you depicted. and well please note that
you may need to extend the notion of leaning how to see
sense perceive what be coming in from not only the senses
but the perceptions and the narratives each employs and
creates...
do we have to catch it before it gets us down—? or before it
gets us up? Is it true that "Life will give you nothing, save
uneasiness and disappointment"? seems to me that life will
give us everything and a bit more...
Do we live in a pain-factory, or a pleasure paradise? so do we
have pain-pleasure- psychologies and pathologies. maybe
we better start to realize that some stimuli are neither
pleasurable nor unpleasurable other than what we make of
it... for example can you enjoy a nice cold shower as much as
enjoy a nice warm shower? seems to me that many still have
to be aware and mindful of what words they opt to create and
recreate especially since they keep creating stuff that's not
pleasant and nice and enjoyable... sometimes a simple
phantom rendition of the situation can enable each to realize
what better be done and how best to do it... to handle the
situations accordingly as each better be handled even if in
some cases this involves the action of no action... and if
history repeats you or the ideologies in you will likely destroy
this message rather than recognize and incorporate it still just
in case that you do choose to recognize and incorporate this
now and here I done redacted it... hope other manage to get
some benefits from this...
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