24291
From: ryan, [DNS_Address]
Subject: imagination
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... We are drunk with imagination. I have heard it said in the Work that at one time humanity on Earth was going forward too quickly in proportion to the rate of development of the Moon and the Earth and had to be held back. The Overseer called the Chief Engineer and explained to him the difficulty. The result was that Man was given imagination. Then from that time everything went on with- out difficulty. The imaginary began to replace the real. As you know, the Work speaks about Imaginary 'I'. Man believes that he has Real 'I' as he is, just as he imagines he is fully conscious. He believes that he is a real individual, unchanging, permanent, with full will and full consciousness. He has no Real 'I' but his imagination creates Imaginary 'I' in him. He hides from himself his extreme inner weakness by means of imagination. Now if a man realizes that he has no Real 'I', no Real Will, that all he has felt and thought about himself in this respect can simply be called Imaginary 'I', then he is beginning to awaken from the drunken sleep in the public house where he spends his money in imagining. This is one side of the position of Man from the esoteric point of view. We remind ourselves here that the problem of esotericism is always the same—namely, how to awaken Man from his state of sleep and make him realize he is asleep. Esoteric teaching takes Man not only as not yet conscious, but drunken with imagination and wasting his force in falsity and violence. You will then see the necessity for beginning with self-observation—the observation of one's sleep. All forms of teaching are quite useless unless the Driver awakens. You can see the reason why. A man may be given some teaching while he is drinking in the public house and this teaching will go into his imagination and increase his state of sleep. If he is told that he is an angel in Heaven he will believe that he is and drink more than ever. Certainly this will increase his state of sleep, his state of imagination. Many good people indulge in this form of drink. Unfortunately there are many sorts of teaching that have this effect as their object—i.e. pseudo-teachings that only increase imagination. In the Work, however, we are given nothing to feed our imagination about ourselves but quite the contrary. I have found nothing flattering in this teaching. There is nothing flattering, for example, in being told that we are machines that have no Real 'I', that we are nothing but pictures of ourselves, that what we call 'I' is nothing but imagination, that we have no Real Will, that we are a mass of contradictions which we do not notice owing to having so many buffers and different forms of padding, that we are not conscious yet, and so on. It is not pleasant to be told that we are mechanical, just machines, and that we do nothing consciously. But teaching of this kind will not tend to prolong our sleep in the public house if we value and apply it to ourselves. When we realize, even to a small degree, that we are mechanical, and that this machine, in which hovers Imaginary 'I', does everything—we experience a shock. This shock may be nothing more at first than an uneasy feeling that we are not quite what we supposed hitherto. Yet even this feeling is the beginning of awakening and it will increase if nourished because it is truth. All awakening has a sour taste—like going back to school. Now when you begin to awaken from your sleep to a small extent you are beginning to remember yourself—not your Imaginary 'I', but something deeper, which eventually leads to Real 'I', which is our truth. The power of imagination however is so great that people do not wish to wake up and experience even momentarily the harsh taste that comes with a moment of greater consciousness. They try to drown it, even though their suffering and unhappiness in ordinary life-affairs are very great. You can see people who are plagued by one thing or another, from which they could escape if they woke up, deliberately preferring to be plagued rather than face awakening and standing up and leaving the public house and taking their place eventually on the box of their own carriage. You know that it is said about sacrifice in this Work that, as we are, we have nothing to sacrifice, nothing worth sacrificing, save one thing —namely, our negative states, our negative suffering, our depressions and songs of misery. We can only sacrifice what we love. Our pictures of ourselves cause us to ascribe to ourselves much that does not exist, except in imagination. One cannot sacrifice something that exists only in imagination. But we so love our suffering, our sadness, and disappointments, our negative states, that here we have something to sacrifice so that the direction of our love can change. When I first heard this I thought it a very strange viewpoint and one that did not apply to me until I began to observe myself and then I began to see it was true. You notice how people intoxicate themselves with their own suffering and cannot listen to anyone else's and are always dwelling on their suffering, either openly or secretly, commiserating with them- selves. This dwelling on suffering is a form of imaginative drunkenness. It is a fascinating form of drunkenness on which the Driver can spend a great deal of money. Do you know your own typical public house song of misery—often actually sung in an actual public house? |
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24294
From: Nevada, [DNS_Address]
Subject: "...we can only sacrifice what we love..."
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...is that why you closed National? It's a stretch for me, but I think I'm finally beginning to understand... Yogananda talked about being awake in the dream but I'm not sure depriving yourself of joy was part of the package. |
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24295
From: ryan, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: "...we can only sacrifice what we love..."
| "joy" is not relevant... |
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24296
From: RIG, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: "...we can only sacrifice what we love..."
| What is "relevant"?... |
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24298
From: ryan, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: "...we can only sacrifice what we love..."
| being important to the actualization of potential... |
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24303
From: RIG, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: "...we can only sacrifice what we love..."
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And Joy, or Sorrow for that matter, can't be part of the equation to actualization of potential?... really, the full range of true and honest emotion is a vitally important part of what it is to be Human... to be an Immortal Soul experiencing Life... to follow such nonsense as found in much of Gurdjieff's, and his cult followers, teachings seems counter intuitive to actualization of the potential to the status of Being Actualized... dontcha think?... |
24309
From: RIG, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: "...we can only sacrifice what we love..."
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And that's why you copy paste such convoluted materials instead of simply speaking from within yourself... |
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24306
From: ryan, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: "...we can only sacrifice what we love..."
| nah... |
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24299
From: chatillion, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: "...we can only sacrifice what we love..."
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Hm. Seemed to be a lot of potential actualization going on there. For a change. 'Slugging'--if that's what you want to call it--was rather low key, anyway. Maybe the wrong side was getting slugged? |
24301
From: mr bopp, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: "...we can only sacrifice what we love..."
| "potential actualization"? ...lol...mostly just a lot of bitch slappin'...and trying to be covert about it too...lol...i went to national this morning and saw pages of mud slinging by nevada, jim, laman, and "q", among others...just not anything i want to support...any further complaints should be addressed on the tech board...thanks... |
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24300
From: RIG, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: "...we can only sacrifice what we love..."
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And maybe the wrong side was being allowed to go too far... ;) |
24302
From: ryan, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: "...we can only sacrifice what we love..."
| you're such a puffball...neither side has gone even close to far enough, imo... |
24304
From: RIG, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: "...we can only sacrifice what we love..."
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A personal attack, and then a statement that sounds contrary to to your action of closing the boards in first place... do your meds need balancing?... ;) |
24307
From: ryan, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: "...we can only sacrifice what we love..."
| maybe you're a prophet....except you keep confusing bopp and me... |
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24305
From: RIG, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: Meant "National Board", not "boards"...(NT)
| (NT) |
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24292
From: RIG, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: XD
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Cheer up, Brian. You know what they say. Some things in life are bad, They can really make you mad. Other things just make you swear and curse. When you're chewing on life's gristle, Don't grumble, give a whistle! And this'll help things turn out for the best And Always look on the bright side of life! Always look on the bright side of life If life seems jolly rotten, There's something you've forgotten! And that's to laugh and smile and dance and sing, When you're feeling in the dumps, Don't be silly chumps, Just purse your lips and whistle -- that's the thing! And always look on the bright side of life Come on! Always look on the bright side of life For life is quite absurd, And death's the final word. You must always face the curtain with a bow! Forget about your sin -- give the audience a grin, Enjoy it, it's the last chance anyhow! So always look on the bright side of death! Just before you draw your terminal breath. Life's a piece of shit, When you look at it. Life's a laugh and death's a joke, it's true, You'll see it's all a show, Keep 'em laughing as you go. Just remember that the last laugh is on you! And always look on the bright side of life Always look on the bright side of life Come on guys, cheer up Always look on the bright side of life Always look on the bright side of life Worse things happen at sea you know Always look on the bright side of life I mean, what have you got to lose? you know, you come from nothing you're going back to nothing what have you lost? Nothing! Always look on the bright side of life |
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24293
From: RIG, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: Hey, watch this ryan... it's just like Earthboppin' every day...
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LOL... ;) "Making it worse? How could it be any worse? Jehovah, Jehovah, Jehovah..." |
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