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23808 |
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Date: September 30, 2016 at 16:29:21
From: shadow, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Who? of all readers/posters Here? |
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...on this lovely Forum our brother Ryan created, would say, would *lay claim to* the belief/knowledge/idealogy that All Beings, regardless of ANYthing other than their *basic HUMANITY* held *in common ground,* so to speak...LITERALLY ENTITLES THEM to ALL GOOD THINGS as defined by that BASIC COMMON DENOMINATOR of: ESSENTIAL FREEDOM, SAFE HOUSING, TRULY HEALTHFUL, NUTRITIOUS FOOD, AND THE OPPORTUNITY TO PURSUE HAPPINESS AS EACH ONE DEFINES IT, PROVIDING IT DOESN'T INTERFERE WITH THE BASIC RIGHTS OF ANOTHER, BY THESE SAME DEFINITIONS???
*chuckling* (and simultaneously) sobbing...
Anyone? I'm sincerely wondering? ;->
Never felt more like a literal *freak* within our current global society, especially within my own country...! Many interactions/observations here confirm this in spades... ;D ;D ;D
So...just peeking in for a moment, and felt enough balls to actually ask the question outright; anyone feels to respond, warm and sincere thanks in advance...
Love, S.
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Responses:
[23816] [23818] [23825] [23826] [23828] [23829] [23827] [23830] [23819] [23813] [23814] [23817] [23820] [23821] [23822] [23823] [23824] [23809] [23810] [23811] [23812] |
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23816 |
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Date: October 02, 2016 at 07:54:42
From: RIG, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: Hi there, Shadow... |
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How are you feeling?...
Sounds great... sounds Utopian... and if humanity was of
one mind this desire wouldn't be a thought because the
present state of affairs would never have become as it
is, which in Truth has been from the beginning... but it
is, and it is Dystopian...
So, how do you think humanity should Lay Claim to this
Utopian Vision?...
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Responses:
[23818] [23825] [23826] [23828] [23829] [23827] [23830] [23819] |
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23818 |
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Date: October 02, 2016 at 13:08:19
From: shadow, [DNS_Address]
Subject: RIG |
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If you're asking w/true sincerity...to be honest, on a human level it's pretty much suckin'. Given that...on a spiritual level, I'm managing Staying Awake at about a 45%-65% success rate, working assiduously for more and better. ;)
RIG, the only way I know to respond to your question of how humanity should lay claim to this "utopian vision," comes not from an intellectual/conceptual How-To context, but from my own, tiny, *subjectively experiential* context. So I doubt it will do anything for you. ;D
Because my *own knowing* (please refer to my post to Sue, to be sure you're clear what I mean by that, though it's hard to imagine you wouldn't, having conversed w/me several times now...lol) advises me that there is a Greater Plan and Blueprint, conceived within a realm of Infinite Love Divinity far outside any context of time/space/earthly limitation, that, if our human awareness COULD contain it, would explain very clearly to us *exactly how* this Divine Plan will unfold and real-ize itself -- *completely regardless of* All Apparent Evidence to the Contrary.... ;D
(And before you say anything to that, please know I have no interest whatsoever in debating the veracity of this Faith, this Knowing I have, with you. 'k? ;D)
So, the HOW-TO of it in a big-picture sense, as I understand things, is simply *not my business nor my job,* because it is already well in hand, and outpicturing perfectly within divine timing... ;D
However...the HOW-TO of it in MY SUBJECTIVE sense lies only in the context of what small part in it I can play. Here, *my knowing, my truth* tells me that I serve it best by literally living and enacting those principles/tenets/factors you characterized as Utopian, within my everyday thoughts, feelings and choices, as best I possibly can...and where I can't, to forgive.
Best I can answer... ;->
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Responses:
[23825] [23826] [23828] [23829] [23827] [23830] [23819] |
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23825 |
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Date: October 03, 2016 at 10:11:07
From: RIG, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: RIG |
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"not my business nor my job"...
So then you've nullified your question in the first
place... or it wasn't really a question of others as much
as your declaration of how things should be according to
your desires, how you think things should be... not
arguing against your vision mind you, just pointing out
how you're coming across to me...
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Responses:
[23826] [23828] [23829] [23827] [23830] |
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23826 |
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Date: October 03, 2016 at 11:35:09
From: shadow, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: RIG |
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LOL dude, you should get paid for your talents as a spin-doctor, if you're not already; you're one of the more adept I've ever met. Not arguing that this is the entirety of who you are, mind you, just pointing out how you're coming across to me. ;)
Not going to ask how you possibly come up with that wording of mine as "nullifying my question," nor am I going to take time & energy to state the obvious and spell out that it simply doesn't. Both would be engaging your spin-field, which I have no interest in...
And although this seems quite obvious, too, I will simply say that *it is the INTENTION and the actual energy of the question* -- that of my desire to know *how many other people feel resonant with these aspects of my experiential/subjective truth/knowing,* that makes it COMPLETELY DIFFERENT from being "a declaration of how things should be according to my desires"...
Huh. Finishing typing that, it occurs to me to wonder: Do you really even get that? Or are you really so one with your spin, that wherever someone's truly coming from is literally invisible to your perception?
No wait! That's rhetorical, no need to answer...lol...
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Responses:
[23828] [23829] [23827] [23830] |
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23828 |
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Date: October 03, 2016 at 13:47:20
From: RIG, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: RIG |
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Wow... shakes head... talk about spin... LOL... ;)
So, you laid out a set of societal problems, that
shouldn't be problems, that should be basic rights
guaranteed to all... I laid out how it isn't that way and
sadly why... and asked how you think we could get
there... to which you said basically, it wasn't your
problem... none of this is spin, just a general breakdown
of the conversation thus far minus your usual reactionary
nature to me... soooo... remember, no matter where you
go, there you are... XD
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Responses:
[23829] |
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23829 |
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Date: October 03, 2016 at 14:08:57
From: shadow, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: RIG |
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Okay, RIG. For the sake of complete neutrality, let's leave your own reactionary nature out of the equation and just say, it's not "spin" on your part; it's simply how your own psyche interprets what I'm expressing. Is that better?
How you're interpreting/receiving what I'm expressing simply doesn't line up contextually with what my actual intention was, in asking what I did. By my lights there's no other way to put this, and that's all I have to say here...
"No matter where you go, there you are." Ayep. Couldn't agree more.
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Responses:
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23827 |
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Date: October 03, 2016 at 11:45:17
From: Jeannie., [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: RIG |
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Many of us here will "get it" no need for further explanation.
Be well.
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Responses:
[23830] |
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23830 |
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Date: October 03, 2016 at 14:09:53
From: shadow, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: RIG |
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Thank you Jeannie, I appreciate knowing I'm speaking a language that's at least understandable to some!
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Responses:
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23819 |
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Date: October 02, 2016 at 13:25:25
From: mr bopp, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: RIG |
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good answer imo susan....al we can do is make it so...
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23813 |
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Date: October 01, 2016 at 16:36:35
From: shadow, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Thanks Sue, Petra, Pamela from Nat'l posts... ;) |
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And otherwise: Um, yeah; that's pretty much what I thought. LOL No wonder I feel like a freak. ;D ;D ;D
(NOT because I AM one, to feel how I do and know what I know... ;D ...just that this confirms something I'd needed to see in black and white, toward coming to terms with the level of unconscious and, often, unintentional violence being acted out onto so many lives, and forms of life, *passively*...which can be so much more insidious than overtly...)
...(with all respect for everyone's everything)...
Yes, indeed: learning about myself, learning about others; the true gold of participation here...
Thank you...
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Responses:
[23814] [23817] [23820] [23821] [23822] [23823] [23824] |
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23814 |
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Date: October 01, 2016 at 17:26:14
From: Sue/Seattle, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: Thanks Sue, Petra, Pamela from Nat'l posts... ;) |
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So I don't get why you are choosing to feel like
freak? Does it seem like no one feels like you do
and that upsetting? The notion that if someone says
they don't see color/race makes them racist comes to
mind. Sometimes it feels like there is nothing that
one can say that is the correct answer. In "Black
Life Matters" or "White Priviledge' I hear we should
just listen, empathize. But in doing that the
response is too often you can never understand
because you are not black, or whatever the topic
is.And honestly after a while of that you ask
yourself why bother.
I expect many on Spiritual have a lot more in
common with you than you think. I couldn't agree
more that action is required, not passivity. Having
lived in Seattle most of my life I probably get more
of a taste of what at least democratic socialism is
than others here. I bring up politics only because
there is action involved there. The force is strong
here to help those less fortunate.
So you say there are things that you "know", please
share
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Responses:
[23817] [23820] [23821] [23822] [23823] [23824] |
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23817 |
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Date: October 02, 2016 at 12:25:38
From: shadow, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Sue |
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When I refer to *what I know,* I'm using that term in its subjective context only. Don't know how much of me you've read, but I can be kind of a maniac about staying clear that one's individual truth/opinion/stance can only be so *for them,* that no one human being has the capacity to hold The Biggest-Picture Context of Truth that, by its nature, contains the validity of Everyone's Truth within it... ;-> No matter how much I've been yelling (using caps) my own version lately. ;D
That being said...all's I have to share about *what I know,* as described above, lies within the wording of my post's question, in which I asked who else, if anyone, shares this orientation. In other words, I *know* ;) that all beings, regardless of anything other than their basic humanity held in common ground, so to speak...literally entitles them to all good things as defined by the basic common denominators of: essential freedom, safe housing, nutritious food and the opportunity to pursue happiness as each one defines it, providing it doesn't interfere with the basic rights of others, by these same definitions.
Realizing how few others find this to be something they feel *they* also *know* (or at least are willing to say)...and with another part of *my truth or what I know* being that no society can begin to call itself *civilized,* if those factors stated above aren't in place...and these combined with the levels of casual violence and ignorance being hurled around in the masse consciousness that I feel so graphically...YEAH, even though I'm encouraged by a few like-hearted beloveds to see it as a compliment, feeling like a 24k FREAK is pretty much unavoidable... ;)
This probably didn't offer you answer from the angle you were asking what you did, I'm sorry...but it's all I can manage now... Thanks for your reply, and love to you...
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Responses:
[23820] [23821] [23822] [23823] [23824] |
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23820 |
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Date: October 02, 2016 at 14:49:54
From: Sue/Seattle, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: Sue |
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To me you just repeated what you first said so let me
try Are you saying all humans are entitled to housing
food happiness and freedom? Entitled meaning has a
right to just by virtue of being human?
I do agree agree with your first paragraph.
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Responses:
[23821] [23822] [23823] [23824] |
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23821 |
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Date: October 02, 2016 at 15:33:36
From: shadow, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: Sue |
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Well...yes, Sue; I apologize if my post didn't explain *why* I repeated myself, there. I did the best I could... ;D And though I cringe to even approach answering around that particular term.... ;)
...knowing how enormously loaded & charged the words entitled and entitlement are (*rolling eyes*), terms often utilized within the context of describing those who appear to believe they deserve the goodness of life *apparently without giving anything in return*...(so often implemented disparagingly by people unwilling to empathize with/imagine there might be others truly in need, in ways they cannot help)...
...having clarified that as best I can...knowing it can never be enough for many ;)...I will answer you with an unequivocal YES, Sue. I absolutely *know* (in ways described in my post above) and believe that every human being, every form of life, DESERVES (MUCH better word ;) "housing, food, happiness and freedom, just by virtue of being human"...
With everything I am, I know this... ;D
Love to you...
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Responses:
[23822] [23823] [23824] |
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23822 |
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Date: October 02, 2016 at 17:36:25
From: Sue/Seattle, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: Sue |
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Thanks Shadow. That helps. It is funny to me we are
told to give without expecting anything in return yet
told we should not take unless we also give something.
As far as happiness I think that is definatey
something we choose to feel or not and personally
wouldn't put that with food or shelter IMO anyway.
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Responses:
[23823] [23824] |
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23823 |
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Date: October 02, 2016 at 19:29:57
From: shadow, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: Sue |
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Thanks, Sue, I'm glad I was able to clarify at least a little...
As for *the choice to be happy* being placed amongst things like food and shelter..........while I take your point moreso than you may realize, understanding the complexities involved that actually comprise any human being's *capacity* to choose happiness for themselves!...I'm citing this moreso along the lines stated within our Declaration of Independence: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness"...
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Responses:
[23824] |
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23824 |
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Date: October 02, 2016 at 20:46:51
From: Sue/Seattle, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: Sue |
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Its all about the pursuit ;)
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23809 |
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Date: September 30, 2016 at 18:14:48
From: Sue/Seattle, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: Who? of all readers/posters Here? |
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You know I honestly am not sure how to answer. Seattle
is going through what seems to me to be a hard push
for a socialist city.Setting unrealistic goals and
demanding, not asking, for equality in all matters.I
guess when you say "entitles"I wonder.Some things
sound good ideology wise but when put in reality,
hmmmmm.
Do I give so others can have housing but then nothing
is left to send my kids to college? Who gets to decide
these things? What am comfortable with? It gets
tiresome being PC all the time.
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Responses:
[23810] [23811] [23812] |
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23810 |
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Date: September 30, 2016 at 18:24:24
From: shadow, [DNS_Address]
Subject: I hear you... |
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...Sue, when it comes to your hardcore questions around what *it costs* someone, anyone, to feel accountable on this level! I really do! These are questions that must find truly functional, operabe answers!
But when I see HARDCORE HUMANITARIAN VALUES characterized as "PC"...or "politically correct"...to be quite honest, I feel my blood rising to a boil!
How and When...(not meaning to direct this so personally to yourself, dear one!)...but SERIOUSLY!!!
WHEN DID HUMANITARIAN VALUES BECOME FAIR GAME FOR THE CONDESCENDING TERM OF "POLITICALLY CORRECT"???
And why doesn't ANYONE SEEM TO RECOGNIZE THAT IN PARTICIPATING WITH THIS GESTURE, they are serving the cause of DEHUMANIZATION???
Ahem. Sorry. Seriously! Don't mean that personally; just can't begin to fathom this.
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Responses:
[23811] [23812] |
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23811 |
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Date: September 30, 2016 at 19:58:23
From: Sue/Seattle, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: I hear you... |
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To me PC is a fluid term and what may be PC in Seattle
is maybe not so much somewhere else. If I hear the
term "white priviledge"one more time I want to scream.
Exactly what do I do with that? It makes me feel like
I'm back at church and told how sinful I am, just
because I was born that way.
Currently it seems like making people seem and feel
bad is the way we relate. I want no part of it.
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Responses:
[23812] |
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23812 |
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Date: October 01, 2016 at 08:52:23
From: Petra, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: I hear you... |
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Hi Sue,
What you've been experiencing in Seattle is happening where I live that once was a rather laid back moderate sized city but now everyone who's at the hub of things has gone really militant and demanding.
However rudeness which I think has been brought about by the use of the Internet is not making things better. I preferred it when folks kept some thoughts to themselves.
Though just last week I was watching a program on TV that said only 40% of the kids to attend college ever stay and get the degrees they hoped to acquire. I'm not sure why that's happening but there must be something that's driving them away from their intentions. And I sincerely hope yours won't be influenced negatively but aspire, grow and live up to their full potential.
These are indeed stressful times.
Petra
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Responses:
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