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55948
From: akira, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Israel is a rogue nation. It should be removed from the United Nations
URL: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/oct/15/israel-united-nations
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‘It’s not as if there isn’t a mechanism for expelling a UN member state.’ View image in fullscreen Opinion Mehdi Hasan Israel is a rogue nation. It should be removed from the United Nations One rogue nation cannot declare war on the UN itself and continue to get away with it Tue 15 Oct 2024 Over the past year, Israel has launched attacks on multiple countries and occupied territories: the Gaza Strip, the West Bank, Lebanon, Syria, Yemen and Iran. Yet countries and territories aside, Israel has also targeted one specific organization with a series of unprecedented rhetorical and violent attacks. Yes, the United Nations. We have all witnessed Israel, effectively, declare war on the UN. Consider the record of recent weeks and months: Israel’s prime minister, while standing on stage at the UN general assembly, denounced the body as “contemptible”, a “house of darkness” and a “swamp of antisemitic bile”. Israel’s outgoing ambassador to the UN shredded a copy of the UN charter with a miniature paper shredder while also standing at the podium of the general assembly, and later said the UN headquarters in New York “should be closed and wiped off the face of the Earth”. Israel’s foreign minister falsely accused the UN secretary general of not having condemned Iran’s attacks on Israel, declared him “persona non grata in Israel” and announced that he had “banned him from entering the country”. The Israeli government actively obstructed a UN-mandated commission of inquiry trying to collect evidence on the 7 October attacks. Israel’s parliament is in the process of designating a longstanding UN agency, Unrwa, as a “terrorist organization”. The Israeli military has bombed UN schools, warehouses and refugee camps in Gaza for 12 consecutive months, and killed a record 228 UN employees in the process. “By far the highest number of our personnel killed in a single conflict or natural disaster since the creation of the United Nations,” to quote the UN secretary general. The Israeli military is now also attacking UN peacekeepers in southern Lebanon. According to the UN, “five UN ‘Blue Helmets’ serving with UNIFIL in Lebanon have been injured as Israeli forces inflicted damage on UN positions close to the ‘Blue Line’.” How is any of this OK? Acceptable? Legal? Perhaps the biggest question of all: how is Israel still allowed to remain a member of the UN? Why has it not yet been expelled from an organization that it is relentlessly and shamelessly attacking and undermining? Sure, there are other human rights abusers that remain card-carrying members of the UN – Syria, Russia and North Korea, to name but a few – but none of them have killed UN employees en masse; none of them have sent tanks to invade a UN base; none of them have “refused to comply with more than two dozen UNSC resolutions”. It has been more than 60 years since any country in the world dared make the UN secretary general himself “persona non grata”. To be clear: it’s not as if there isn’t a mechanism for expelling a UN member state. Article 6 of the UN charter says: “A Member of the United Nations which has persistently violated the Principles contained in the present Charter may be expelled from the Organization by the General Assembly upon the recommendation of the Security Council.” Now some might point out that no member state has ever been expelled from the UN under Article 6. Plus, the United States, which has vetoed over 50 UN security council resolutions critical of Israel since the early 1970s, would never allow such a “recommendation of the Security Council” to be made. It’s a valid objection. History, however, teaches us that there are workarounds to security council vetoes. As the international law professor and former US state department adviser Thomas Grant pointed out in October 2022, while making his own case for expelling Russia from the United Nations in the wake of Vladimir Putin’s illegal invasion of Ukraine, “UN members on two occasions in the past have judged a particular Member delegation no longer fit to sit at the organization’s table. On both occasions, the UN improvised a solution.” In 1971, socialist and non-aligned nations in the Global South voted in the UN general assembly to recognized the People’s Republic of China as “the only legitimate representative of China to the United Nations” and thereby replaced the representatives from the Republic of China (Taiwan), which had been a founding member of the UN. ROC was out, PRC was in – and it was the general assembly, not the security council, that decided it. Three years later, relying again not on the UN charter but its own “rules of procedure” as the human rights lawyer and former UN official Saul Takahisi has noted, the UN general assembly “voted to refuse to recognize the credentials of the South African delegation” and “barred South Africa from participation in the Unga” until 1994. Oh, and the two main reasons cited by the UN general assembly for suspending South Africa’s membership? Its practice of apartheid against the indigenous Black population and its illegal occupation of neighboring Namibia. Sound familiar? Crucially, as Thomas Grant has written, “the move against South Africa followed no precise procedural pathway in the UN charter or existing UN practice” and the UN showed how “an improvisatory ethos prevails, when the member states judge a matter important enough that they must act.” So what is more “important” for the UN member states right now than attacks on the UN itself by a single member state? On the UN’s authority, personnel, headquarters and charter? On Saturday, 40 countries issued a joint statement condemning Israel’s brazen and ongoing assault on UN peacekeepers in Lebanon but talk is cheap. UN member states need to act. The Israeli government may want to pretend that the United Nations, and the general assembly in particular, is irrelevant, impotent and filled with antisemitic bias, yet Israel only exists today because of a UN general assembly resolution. The country’s own 1948 Declaration of Independence makes seven different references to the United Nations, all of them super-positive and ever-so- grateful. So evicting Israel from the UN, or at least suspending its participation in the general assembly as a first step, would send a powerful message – both to the people of Israel and to the rest of the world. That the authority of the United Nations still matters. That the lives of UN staff and peacekeepers also matter. And that one rogue nation cannot declare war on the UN itself and continue to get away with it." Mehdi Hasan is the CEO and editor-in-chief of the new media compay Zeteo |
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55949
From: ryan, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: Israel is a rogue nation. It should be removed from the United...
| i'm guessing then you also mean russia should be removed...and iran and most of the mideastern countries...and china...and the US...won't be many left...in other words, you think there should be no UN... |
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55953
From: akira, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: Israel is a rogue nation. It should be removed from the United...
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you think there should be a UN, bopp? Which nations should be included? Those who abide by UN rulings or those who don't? I certainly agree that the US should be excluded. We only recognized the UN and its rulings when they're doing our bidding. Otherwise we dismiss the body entirely, and do as we please. |
55954
From: ryan, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: Israel is a rogue nation. It should be removed from the United...
| yes..and every nation should be included... |
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55986
From: chaskuchar@stcharlesmo, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: Israel is a rogue nation. It should be removed from the United...
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agree. at least other countries can see where we are at. |
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55951
From: old timer, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: Israel is a rogue nation. It should be removed from the United...
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the difference is that russia, china and iran aren’t actively attacking un peacekeeping forces. don’t confuse our enemies with a rogue nation committing genocide who is also attacking un troops, big difference |
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55955
From: mitra, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: Israel is a rogue nation. expletive deleted
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Expletive deleted. Russia is attacking a neighbor, in a most horrible way, and the UN wasn't consulted. China didn't bother to get approval from the UN before killing half of Tibetans, God knows how many Uighars, let's not count the Falun Gong, they haven't released numbers. Iran is busy supporting Islamic terrorism to bother with that pesky UN thing. Sure, Israel should not attack the UN troops or aid workers, and neither should the aid workers give support to a terrorist regime. Can you tell I'm disgusted with this level of thinking that if one side is wrong the other must be right? Another expletive deleted. |
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55959
From: akira, [DNS_Address]
Subject: UN condemned Russia..
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You are misinformed. the US had no problem participating in that vote. UN tells Russia to leave Ukraine: How did countries vote? https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/2/24/un-tells-russia-to-leave-ukraine- how-did-countries-vote UN General Assembly calls for immediate end to war in Ukraine https://news.un.org/en/story/2023/02/1133847 |
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55957
From: old timer, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: Israel is a rogue nation. expletive deleted
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you are correct that russia, china and iran are bad guys doing bad things, but israel is taking it to a different level showing they are a rogue nation. they are slaughtering all those civilians and killing journalists, aid workers, doctors, teachers and even unarmed american citizens. they are starving 2 million people to the point the us is giving them 30 days to boost aid to those people or risk losing military support. other nations have also demanded israel abide by the geneva convention and some are already halting arms shipments. they have bombed un schools, warehouses, refugee amps and they are even attacking un peacekeeping forces. they are breaking international law such as the geneva convention, rules that were put in place to after what was done to the jews during wwii i’m disgusted with the level of thinking that won’t admit the unethical way israel is conducting it’s quickly expanding war |
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55969
From: akira, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: Israel is a rogue nation. expletive deleted
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Does mitra actually still deny that Israel is implementing a genocide? It boggles the mind. |
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55975
From: old timer, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: Israel is a rogue nation. expletive deleted
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not sure, she is probably still blaming hamas for the genocide. so damn strange they are in denial that israel is much, much worse than our enemies. of course as americans we aren’t used to our allies committing genocide and attacking un peacekeeping forces so i understand it is hard for them to grasp |
55978
From: akira, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: Israel is a rogue nation. expletive deleted
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There are several here who won't acknowledge that Israel is committing a genocide. If they admit that, they have to admit US complicity. And since US foreign policy is in the hands of a democrat, they won't dare. But I'm the black & white gal. lol |
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55976
From: shadow , [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: Israel is a rogue nation. expletive deleted
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"Of course as americans we aren’t used to our allies committing genocide and attacking un peacekeeping forces so i understand it is hard for them to grasp" Okay, old timer...lol...you're going to speak to us as if we're children, I'll do my best not to whip the same right back at you, and speak as if to an adult... No. This is hardly the first time we've been complicit in atrocities overseas and, no, I doubt any of us have been living under a rock while that's been going on. Though we know you wish that were true, so you could join akira's ranks and feel like The Great Revealer of Truths They Refuse to See... Believe it or not...and much as it may offend your sensibilities, both of you's...it is possible TO KNOW such things are happening, NOT BE OKAY with it on obvious humane principles, and...(wait for it)...KNOW that when it comes right down to it, there is not ONE THING that we, as individuals, can do to *muscle that reality out of where it currently stands* ON PRINCIPLE... If you know of one, do feel free to chime in... ...and if you don't, well, we know better than to imagine you'd consider quitting the shaming-/condescending M.O....because after all, it IS all you have!...but imho this just needed to be plainly said... Oh! And, YES! I DO employ the same tactics -- but what's different between us is that in the arena I'm speaking to, there IS A POSSIBLE CHOICE TO STOP FASCISM FROM TAKING OVER THIS COUNTRY for people to make with their vote. If that choice isn't made, and in numbers TOO GREAT TO BE FUCKED WITH, EVEN BY ALL THAT WORKS AGAINST HUMANITARIAN GOOD AT THE INNER CORE...ALL HOPE FOR ANYTHING BUT FURTHER EXPANSION OF THE GLOBAL RIGHTWING PERVERSION will be lost...and you think you know what the word *atrocity* means NOW....we don't have Clue One... |
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56022
From: mitra, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: Israel is a rogue nation. expletive deleted
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Sorry, didn't read this until now. I understand why it got no response. Your post was emphatically reasonable. "...in the arena I'm speaking to, there IS A POSSIBLE CHOICE TO STOP FASCISM FROM TAKING OVER THIS COUNTRY for people to make with their vote. If that choice isn't made, and in numbers TOO GREAT TO BE FUCKED WITH, EVEN BY ALL THAT WORKS AGAINST HUMANITARIAN GOOD AT THE INNER CORE...ALL HOPE FOR ANYTHING BUT FURTHER EXPANSION OF THE GLOBAL RIGHTWING PERVERSION will be lost...and you think you know what the word *atrocity* means NOW....we don't have Clue One..." Yes. |
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55970
From: shadow, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: Israel is a rogue nation. expletive deleted
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Does akira actually still believe she can wage personal disrespect campaigns against individual posters here and...win something? From, like, someone other than Old Timer? lol |
55971
From: akira, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: Israel is a rogue nation. expletive deleted
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You're not to be taken seriously, shadow. you have no problem with ao's or others disrespectful posts. The only behavior you have problems with are from people you disagree with. And since when is questioning whether mitra still denies Israel's is committing genocide disrespectful? If respectful behavior is so important you to shadow, I suggest you start learning how to engage in it. Mitra is a big girl and can speak for herself. Try controlling your impulse to jump in to every conversation, especially when clearly have nothing to add. You are a joke. |
55972
From: shadow, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: Israel is a rogue nation. expletive deleted
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If I'm a "joke," akira, you're certainly no less of one...lol... I'll take a little more time to digest your condescending sermon, if you don't mind, before I reply...lol... And if you're looking for that world where the leader in a race stops to help someone behind them, whether it affects their win or not, I strongly suggest you start treating people here with the pay-it-forward respect you demand for yourself... |
55973
From: akira, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: Israel is a rogue nation. expletive deleted
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" your condescending sermon" Sorry to intrude on your domain... lol |
55977
From: ao, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: Israel is a rogue nation. expletive deleted
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"Sorry to intrude on your domain... lol" Oh, come on, akira, we all know.. every one of us knows, International is your domain. You control this forum with an endless rant.. a continuous stream of your very own pity party. So what if any of us respond.. it's your domain lock stock and everything else but you don't pay the freight. Carry on, but please don't be confused who's the dominant voice here.. it's you. |
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55974
From: shadow, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: Israel is a rogue nation. expletive deleted
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...lol...really, akira? You want to go toe-to-toe on *this*? ...lolololol.... |
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55956
From: ryan, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: Israel is a rogue nation. expletive deleted
| unfortunately, some people think with their mouth... |
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