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55139 |
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Date: August 19, 2024 at 08:31:55
From: akira, [DNS_Address]
Subject: A vision of hell. Insane levels of destruction in North Gaza |
URL: https://x.com/Charlie533080/status/1825074718317109293 |
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WATCH AT LINK.
Mehdi Hasan reposted
Charlie Herbert
@Charlie533080
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Aug 18
A vision of hell. Insane levels of destruction in North Gaza. This isn’t simply the
result of Israel’s fight against Hamas. It’s a punitive Medieval-style raid against
a population of more than two million. How can any decent human support
this?
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Responses:
[55140] [55143] [55163] [55165] [55144] [55157] [55141] [55158] [55167] [55142] [55156] [55147] [55155] [55150] [55148] [55145] [55146] [55181] |
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55140 |
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Date: August 19, 2024 at 08:35:12
From: akira, [DNS_Address]
Subject: & y'all stay silent as the US continues support...how do you do it? |
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so curious. Never, in all the years I've been reading these board have you
people stayed so quiet about less devastating atrocities.
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Responses:
[55143] [55163] [55165] [55144] [55157] [55141] [55158] [55167] [55142] [55156] [55147] [55155] [55150] [55148] [55145] [55146] [55181] |
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55143 |
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Date: August 19, 2024 at 17:37:35
From: mitra, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: & y'all stay silent as the US continues support...how do you do... |
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I was attacked mercilessly for stating this is exactly
what would happen, and showing that the people of Gaza
were pawns of Hamas/Iran, Egypt, et al., as well as the
Israelis in power.
So what do you want? Denounce Israel for using food and
water as a war crime? Did that. No response from you.
When the US participated in an urban war that killed a
100,000 civilians in Manila, in 30 days and it was
over. Taking longer in the Gaza, I understand, but
this population has suffered for 8 times Manila. Why
the delay? Months ago civilian Israelis were asking
the same question.
You post horror stories but do not respond to the very
real question of how Hamas/Palestinians will let go of
Israel and focus on their own state, should that be
allowed to them. They are as much at fault as Israelis
for refusing a two state solution. They are as much at
fault as the Israelis for claiming the entire Israel as
their God-given right.
Despite repeated requests you did not respond to
queries as to what Israelis were to do with Hamas and
their calls for the elimination of Israel's while
elevating attackers to martyrs. Sinwar said 100,000
civilians weren't too many to lose.
And you did not respond to my warnings that the
destruction of Gaza was the only way to Trump Gaza.
So why bother responding to your posts when it goes no
where?
And, for some perspective, what is happening in Gaza is
one tenth and less than the disaster facing Sudan,
where 26 millions facing another man-made starvation
civil war, also with military investment from Iran and
Russia.
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Responses:
[55163] [55165] [55144] [55157] |
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55163 |
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Date: August 22, 2024 at 04:39:45
From: akira, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: & y'all stay silent as the US continues support...how do you do... |
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Responses:
[55165] |
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55165 |
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Date: August 22, 2024 at 11:12:35
From: mitra, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: & y'all stay silent as the US continues support...how do you do... |
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Mitra's fine today.
Poor Palestinians who are dangled like bait by their
own government and foreign interests, with even those
who care for them preyed upon by those same warmongers.
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Responses:
None |
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55144 |
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Date: August 19, 2024 at 18:07:33
From: chaskuchar@stcharlesmo, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: & y'all stay silent as the US continues support...how do you do... |
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next countries are in europe. italy first per the
messages.
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Responses:
[55157] |
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55157 |
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Date: August 20, 2024 at 18:44:55
From: mitra, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: & y'all stay silent as the US continues support...how do you do... |
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Yup. That's what they say, but 26 million people are
facing starvation now. Another man made crisis
exacerbated by climate pressures.
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55141 |
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Date: August 19, 2024 at 13:10:46
From: Joe, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: & y'all stay silent as the US continues support...how do you do... |
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Most people here are demos. They don't want to put
pressure on Harris to say she will cut back on aid to
Netanyahu if he continues with the atrocities since that
will lose her donors and some votes.
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Responses:
[55158] [55167] [55142] [55156] [55147] [55155] [55150] [55148] [55145] [55146] [55181] |
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55158 |
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Date: August 20, 2024 at 20:14:07
From: old timer, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: & y'all stay silent as the US continues support...how do you do... |
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correct. the political people here won’t speak up because a dem is in the
white house and it’s an election year. politics above all with these people.
put a republican in the white house and these people will join you as if
they really do have a conscience. just don’t be fooled
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Responses:
[55167] |
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55167 |
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Date: August 22, 2024 at 16:00:28
From: akira, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: & y'all stay silent as the US continues support...how do you do... |
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it's perplexing why you would vote for Trump. He's clearly pro-Israel and has
expressed his full support for the state.
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55142 |
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Date: August 19, 2024 at 15:37:58
From: ryan, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: & y'all stay silent as the US continues support...how do you do... |
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she can't really say anything other than the biden line as long as she is still vp...as for staying silent, what should i say? do? scream and pull my hair? don't think that would make any difference...you scream enuf for everyone...of course the killing of innocent children and women is way beyond the pale...way out of line...there is no moral or legal or justifiable defense for it...it is obscene what has happened in gaza...the israeli military is out of control, and commanders encourage the atrocities committed by their troops...so stop it dudes...there, i told them...you can relax now...and remember, there is a good chance many if not most of them chose to go through this experience...
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Responses:
[55156] [55147] [55155] [55150] [55148] [55145] [55146] [55181] |
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55156 |
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Date: August 20, 2024 at 17:13:59
From: Redhart, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: & y'all stay silent as the US continues support...how do you do... |
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55147 |
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Date: August 19, 2024 at 19:48:50
From: KIE, [DNS_Address]
Subject: blatantly false |
URL: http://earthboppin.net/talkshop/national/messages/439889.html |
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see yesterday's post to understand why your argument that Harris "really can't
say anything' is complete bullshit. #4.
There are times when remaining silent is tantamount to a criminal act. This is
one of them. She won't be getting my vote or the vote of many other
Americans if she stays mum.
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Responses:
[55155] [55150] [55148] |
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55155 |
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Date: August 20, 2024 at 17:13:31
From: Redhart, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: blatantly false |
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55150 |
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Date: August 19, 2024 at 20:08:09
From: akira, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Mehdi Hasan: She must break with Biden now |
URL: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/aug/19/kamala-harris-biden-gaza-ceasefire-arms-embargo |
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Biden’s Gaza policy is a liability for Kamala Harris. She must break with Biden
now
Mehdi Hasan
"Harris must call for a ceasefire and arms embargo on Israel this week. It’s a no-
brainer. Refusing to would mean risking defeat
Mon 19 Aug 2024
The sitting Democratic president is not running for re-election. His vice-
president has inherited his campaign – and refuses to disown an unpopular
foreign war. Robert Kennedy is running for president. The Republican candidate
is a corrupt authoritarian. A Planet of the Apes movie is in theaters. And anti-
war protesters are threatening to disrupt the Democratic convention in
Chicago.
Am I discussing 2024 or … 1968?
Now, I’m far from the first columnist to make this comparison. Plenty of pieces
have been published on the uncanny and, yes, undeniable similarities between
these two consequential election years. “History,” as Mark Twain is said to have
remarked, “does not repeat itself. But it rhymes.”
Joe Biden, after all, is the first president to announce he is not running for re-
election since Lyndon Johnson, 56 years ago. And just as Biden’s replacement
at the top of the Democratic ticket is his vice-president, Kamala Harris, so too
was Johnson’s.
Vice-President Hubert Humphrey had been a popular, well-respected senator
from Minnesota and one of the architects of postwar American liberalism. He
had served as a loyal deputy to Johnson over four years, even publicly
defending a bloody quagmire in Vietnam on the president’s behalf that he
himself had privately opposed.
Yet in August 1968, the “Happy Warrior”, as Humphrey had been nicknamed,
arrived in Chicago for the Democratic convention depressed and demoralized,
trailing his Republican opponent, Richard Nixon, in the polls by a whopping 16
points. The war had become a millstone around his neck, and yet Johnson had
threatened to “destroy” his vice-president if he dared take a different line on
Vietnam. When Humphrey in Chicago, as the official Democratic presidential
nominee, tried to insert a compromise “peace” plank into the party’s platform
that seemed to satisfy both hawks and doves alike, the Democratic president
called from his ranch in Texas to block him.
In the wake of that disastrous convention, where police brutally assaulted anti-
war protesters on the streets of Chicago, the demonstrations against the
hapless Humphrey intensified. “Dump the Hump” was on the gentler side;
some protesters arrived at the VP’s rallies with placards denouncing him as
“Johnson’s War Salesman” and a “Killer of Babies”. One woman spat in his face.
“Let’s face it, as of now we’ve lost,” Humphrey’s national campaign director,
Larry O’Brien, told him a few weeks after Chicago. “Unless you change
direction on this Vietnam thing and become your own man, you’re finished.”
On 30 September 1968, Humphrey finally became his “own man”, committing
“$100,000 of the campaign’s dwindling funds to buy a half-hour on NBC
television”, and delivering a speech from a TV studio in Salt Lake City calling for
an end to the war. In his address, Humphrey made clear that Johnson was still
in charge of the effort to reach a peace deal in south-east Asia, but by 20
January 1969, there would “be a new president” and “if there is no peace by
then” then there must be a “complete reassessment” of the conflict because
“the policies of tomorrow need not be limited by the policies of yesterday”.
The vice-president laid out a four-point plan to end the conflict. First, “a
stopping of the bombing”. Second, “a de-Americanization of the war”. Third, an
immediate “internationally supervised ceasefire”. Fourth, “free elections”, which
he described as “the ultimate key to an honorable peace”.
It was a powerful intervention from Humphrey, aired to tens of millions of
Americans, which allowed the Democratic presidential candidate to hit reset
with the party’s base and, in particular, with younger voters and people of color.
“He was a new man from then on,” O’Brien later declaimed. “It was as if a
burden had been lifted from his shoulders. And the impact on the campaign
itself was just as great.”
Humphrey experienced an immediate surge in the polls, narrowing the gap with
Nixon. By election day, the final polls “pointed to a dead heat”.
Few now remember that the 1968 presidential election, in terms of the popular
vote, was super-close. Nixon defeated Humphrey by less than a percentage
point, or about 500,000 votes. The question is: what if the Vietnam war hadn’t
dragged him down? What if he had been willing to break with Johnson over
Vietnam much earlier than he did? Would the US have avoided Nixon,
Watergate and the rest? Had he stood up to Johnson “over Vietnam in 1968”,
writes Humphrey’s biographer Arnold Offner, “he might have won the
presidential election”.
The war, agrees Yale historian Michael Brenes, “alienated Humphrey from
liberals, civil rights activists and young Americans – the same people who, for
decades, had loved Humphrey for his support of racial justice, full employment
and the labor movement – and ultimately cost him the presidency in 1968”.
Has the 2024 Harris campaign learned any lessons from the 1968 Humphrey
campaign?
Gaza may not be Vietnam, but Harris should be distancing herself from Biden
on Gaza in the same way Humphrey distanced himself from Johnson on
Vietnam
To be clear: Gaza isn’t Vietnam. There is no military draft and US troops are not
bogged down in rice paddies 8,000 miles from home. And Harris, unlike
Humphrey, is leading right now in most of the polls.
Complacency, however, would be a huge mistake for the Democrats. Harris,
ideally, needs to maintain a sustained two-point lead over Trump to overcome
the pro-Republican bias of our broken electoral college. Despite her clear
momentum, she continues to struggle in the key swing state of Michigan,
where “Uncommitted” voters are demanding a Gaza ceasefire paired with an
arms embargo on Israel.
Agreeing to such a demand should be a moral, geopolitical, and – for the
Democrats – electoral no-brainer. Gaza may not be Vietnam but Harris should,
nonetheless, be distancing herself from Biden on Gaza in the same way that
Humphrey distanced himself from Johnson on Vietnam. She should be
advocating for all four of the steps that he advocated for in Salt Lake City,
beginning with a call for an immediate halt to the horrific Israeli bombing of
Gaza’s schools, apartment buildings and refugee camps.
Crucially, however, she should do it more than a month before he did; she
should do it in her acceptance speech to the Democratic national convention in
Chicago on Thursday night. (“I fear she will be Humphrey and break too late,”
one prominent House Democrat texted me last week.)
What does she have to lose? As the Financial Times pointed out last month, the
polling suggests there is “less downside” on Gaza than one might expect: “a
Democrat who is soft on Israel (as Biden is seen as having been) loses support
on the left, but a candidate who takes a more critical line wins those voters
back without losing votes among moderates.” A poll last week from YouGov
and the Institute for Middle East Understanding (IMEU) showed over a third of
voters in three swing states say they are more likely to vote for the Democratic
nominee if they pledge to withhold weapons to Israel, while only 5 to 7% said
they would be less likely to do so.
So what is Harris waiting for? More anti-war hecklers at her rallies? Even more
civilian deaths caused by Biden administration-supplied munitions?
Some might say that it is impossible for a serving vice-president to go against
the sitting president, even a deeply unpopular sitting president, on a major
foreign policy issue. They would be wrong. Humphrey did it – he just did it too
late in the campaign to reap an electoral advantage.
Harris is in a much stronger position than Humphrey. Biden would never dare
try to humiliate her the way that Johnson regularly did to Humphrey. (On one
memorable occasion, the then president insisted Humphrey continue reciting
aloud from a draft speech of his on Vietnam as Johnson walked into a toilet:
“Keep talking Hubert, I’m listening.”)
Humphrey spent much of 1968 defending both Johnson and the war. He was
less a candidate for change and “more like a son who feared a punitive father”,
to quote Offner. “I don’t even know who Johnson would prefer as the next
president,” the fearful vice-president told the Soviet ambassador, Anatoly
Dobrynin, “Nixon or me.”
Harris is not Humphrey. Gaza is not Vietnam. 2024 is not 1968. Nevertheless,
the similarities that do exist are too glaring to ignore.
Biden may want to continue sending more and more weapons to an Israeli
government accused of war crimes at the international criminal court and of
genocide at the international court of justice, but Harris should take a different
stance – a bolder stance, a stance that is more in line with her party’s base, as
well as with the American public at large.
The current vice-president would do well to recall the words of the then vice-
president after his narrow defeat in 1968. “I ought not to have let a man who
was going to be a former president dictate my future.”"
Mehdi Hasan is the founder and editor-in-chief of Zeteo
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Responses:
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55148 |
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Date: August 19, 2024 at 19:51:28
From: akira..., [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: blatantly false(NT) |
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Responses:
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55145 |
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Date: August 19, 2024 at 18:11:44
From: chaskuchar@stcharlesmo, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: & y'all stay silent as the US continues support...how do you do... |
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hopefully hamas will agreee to the ceasefire. israel
accepted after a three hour conference with blinken.
the first problem is when palestinians want to return to
north gaza.
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Responses:
[55146] [55181] |
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55146 |
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Date: August 19, 2024 at 18:47:57
From: mitra, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: & y'all stay silent as the US continues support...how do you do... |
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I just heard Hamas would not ceasefire.
Hopefully that was wrong.
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Responses:
[55181] |
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55181 |
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Date: August 23, 2024 at 16:47:32
From: chaskuchar@stcharlesmo, [DNS_Address]
Subject: Re: & y'all stay silent as the US continues support...how do you do... |
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i heard later that hamas got nothing from thee ceace3
fire
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Responses:
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